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New Article - For Speeders, Hybrids Suck Gas

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Tempus, May 21, 2004.

  1. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,...?tw=wn_1bizhead

    For Speeders, Hybrids Suck Gas

    By John Gartner | Also by this reporter Page 1 of 1

    02:00 AM May. 21, 2004 PT

    Owners of hybrid cars are finding that how you drive is just as important as what you drive, at least when it comes to gas mileage.

    (Commentary - DUH!!!)

    While many hybrid owners gleefully report that their cars get upward of 55 miles per gallon of gas, owners of underachieving vehicles are flabbergasted as to why their autos don't measure up. Honda and Toyota say it's natural for lead-footed drivers and adverse conditions to cause a huge gap in fuel-efficiency.

    Conscientious hybrid owners who post their gas mileage online to websites like GreenHybrid.com reveal a wide range of experiences. Toyota Prius drivers have reported lifetime fuel-efficiency from 36 to 58 mpg, while Honda Civic Hybrid owners claim to get between 32 and 56 mpg.

    Bill Gausman, who regularly posts his mileage on GreenHybrid.com, said, "I'd have to throw an anchor out of my window to get mileage that bad," referring to drivers who report receiving less than 40 mpg.

    Enthusiastic hybrid owners share their knowledge with their dissatisfied brethren in newsgroups and blogs, but according to Civic Hybrid owner Pete Blackshaw, the advice is often conflicting or insufficient. Blackshaw said his Honda dealer did not offer any helpful answers as to why his car was getting 10 mpg less than other Civic Hybrids. Blackshaw, who lives in Cincinnati, said the dealer told him that the mileage would increase over time, but that hasn't been the case.

    Honda spokesman Chris Naughton said that Blackshaw's fuel-efficiency is within the expectations for the car, which has an EPA rating of 47 mpg. Naughton said there are "so many variables" and "so little of a sample size" that Honda cannot determine an average user experience.

    Naughton said that contrary to what the dealer told Blackshaw, he was not aware of any break-in period after which mileage would improve. Despite the varied customer experiences and numerous questions about hybrid fuel-efficiency, Naughton said Honda does not have a program to educate dealers on how to respond to dissatisfied customers. Generally speaking, Naughton advised Civic Hybrid owners not to drive too fast or brake too hard. "Be mindful that (fuel-efficiency) can vary."

    Toyota responded to customer queries by distributing a four-page pamphlet to its dealers in April. The document, which explains hybrid fuel-efficiency and offers tips on boosting gas mileage, is available upon request from dealers, according to Toyota spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell.

    Toyota engineer Dave Hermance said that weather, driving conditions and driver habits can cut fuel-efficiency by up to 30 percent. Hermance said drivers who slowly roll through intersections using "California stops" are decreasing their mileage. "If you don't stop, you don't get the free energy of regenerative braking."

    Toyota said that braking too hard loses some of the benefits of regenerative braking, which captures energy from slowing the car to charge the battery. If the battery's charge falls below a certain threshold, then the car will rely more heavily on the gas engine than the electric motor. According to Toyota, cold weather can reduce fuel-efficiency by up to 35 percent, and not allowing the car to warm up can also put a crimp in mileage.

    Jeremy Warren of Massillon, Ohio, said he was able to boost the mileage for his Civic Hybrid by paying close attention to when he shifts gears. "Part of the problem lies in the fact that people have to change their driving habits slightly when driving hybrids," Warren said in an e-mail interview. Warren, who gets between 48 and 50 mpg, said pushing his car beyond 3,500 revolutions per minute noticeably drops his mileage.

    Warren said that learning how to exert consistent pressure when braking and relying on cruise control as much as possible has helped him to maximize fuel-efficiency. "(It's) not anything major, but using your car to your advantage makes every difference."

    Gausman said the fuel-efficiency of his Prius has increased during his three months of ownership from 47 to 55 mpg. An engineer who commutes to work across Minneapolis, Gausman attributes his increasing fuel-efficiency to warmer temperatures and careful attention to his acceleration and braking.

    "If you use long, slow acceleration, your mileage sucks," Gausman said, recommending that drivers use moderate acceleration to get to the desired speed and then coast.

    Gausman considers the Prius the "Mona Lisa of engineering design" for its ability to balance the use of the electric motor and gas engine. He said that the easiest way to reduce fuel-efficiency is to speed. "If I'm doing more than 70, then I'll definitely get less than 50 mpg."


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    Commentary - Much better than the last article

    http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,...4,63413,00.html

    Might even be considered somewhat of a 'retraction' :)
     
  2. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Arrghh!! I'd bet a dollar that Toyota did *not* say anything like "not allowing the car to warm up can also put a crimp in mileage". The best way to warm up any car, including a hybrid, is to (gently) drive it. (Mis-)quotes like the above (mis-)lead people into idling in their driveways for minutes before moving, an utterly pointless waste of gas.
     
  3. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    From that article: "In Consumer Reports' real-world driving test, the Civic Hybrid averaged 26 mpg in the city, while the Toyota Prius averaged 35 mpg, much less than their respective EPA estimates of 47 and 60 mpg."

    How th' heck did CR drive their Prius to get that relatively lousy fuel economy? Is this the effect of cold weather? All of my 800 miles to date are 'city' miles and I've got 46 MPG overall. Ambient temps have been between 65 and 90 F.
     
  4. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    Maybe they meant over-use of the EV Mode :)
     
  5. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    Sometimes not POINTLESS, but a waste anyway.

    On the way to work Tuesday, I took a bag of garbage to the dumpster and didn't notice that it tore taking it out of the plastic can. Some coffee grounds spilled onto the unprotected hatch area, so I got out the Auto Power vacuum and cleaned up.

    It had to be plugged in to work so I had to leave the car running, and then I found out that the cord wasn't long enough to run all the way to the back from the outside, so I had to reroute it back over the seats. A few moments of cleaning, and I was done. Pull cord out of dash outlet, toss the stuff in the back seat, go to work.

    After all this screwing around, my first 5-minute MPG rating was like 12, maybe 13MPG. This kind of stuff is why I need hot outlets all the time...
     
  6. Sun__Tzu

    Sun__Tzu New Member

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    Really? I thought coasting through everything was the ideal way to drive. No matter how good regenerative brakes are, they can't possibly recapture 100% of the energy, so how do California stops hurt mileage?


    So is this true for regular cars too? Any explanation behind this?


    I think that people (reporters, Prius-owners, wannabe Prius-owners) should stop labeling this style of driving "hybrid driving." Instead, it should be "fuel efficient driving," since all of these methods (besides the milking of regenerative brakes) would help any car achieve better mileage. When people read that they need to drive these hybrids in a "special" way to get good mileage, they might as well be told they also need to plug it in.
     
  7. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    IMHO, a regular car won't benefit as much. My last regular car didn't regularly go from 18MPG to 99.9MPG under the right layout of road once I got up to speed and hit the cruise control. On flat roads, going to 60MPG for a bit is frequent. Downhill, there's a big benefit in getting up to speed and cruising, since you pay a MPG penalty accelerating even downhill.

    However, when I'm not pressured by traffic, often I just drift off when starting downhill. One light near me, top of a hill, is prime for that. Can coast nearly 1/2 mile sometimes, right at the 40MPH limit a good chunk of the way. Makes me wish the regeneration on just drifting was higher...
     
  8. slowpoke

    slowpoke New Member

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    Tell u what, no matter what the MPG is, it's helluva lot better than my Heep Wrangler!
     
  9. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Probably shouldn't as long as you are braking as you slow down. Less energy required to keep an object moving than to get it moving. I believe that at something like 3-5 mph, the friction brakes kick in anyway.
    On the other hand, I really don't like people running stop signs and red lights.

    To paraphrase a "Logger" joke:
    Guy rolls through a stop sign, cop pulls him over.
    Cop: You just ran that stop sign
    Driver: I slowed down and looked both ways to be sure no one was coming.
    Cop: Its a STOP sign.
    Cop starts whacking the driver on the head with his flashlight.
    Cop: Now, do you want me to stop or just sloooow down?