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New brake pads and rotors smoking

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Cory Potrafka, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    Having some brake issues, hoping to discover what the issue is ASAP. Here is the history up to and since the new rotors and pads I installed. I've had the car about 3 years now, replaced the pads once, this was the first time replacing rotors on this car but am no stranger to job in general. In fact I have replaced both front wheel bearing hubs on this car so I have dug much deeper in this area than the rotors. Had no issue doing driver side, got to passenger side and one caliper pin was completely stuck. I knew it should turn freely so I turned it with a wrench to free it. Well it snapped off in the bracket. Did not want to mess with drilling it out so just bought a new caliper bracket, new pins, and new bushings. Replaced it all and all seemed well. Afterwards I noticed here and there that I smelled hot brakes faintly but thought little of it since I live in the mountains (3000 ft, nothing too crazy) and there are often trucks on the highway with hot brakes. Most my driving stays right around this elevation with just a little up and down. Except when I head east and have to go down the entire mountain. I never had any braking issue doing this for 3 years. Went down it one day recently (since the pads/rotor replace) and smelled it strong. Got to where i was going and saw smoke coming from passenger brake and realized it had been my own brakes i had occasionally smelled. I figured well, that's why the pin was stuck, the caliper piston is probably sticking and wasn't been moving. I of course had forced it back to make room for the new pad and rotor so it wasn't frozen solid, but I assumed it was sticking and not moving as freely as it should. Now I usually do tons of research on new problems but I have been in a perpetual and intense time crunch these past few weeks. So I decided to just go for it, I actually did the repair outside my work before heading to another studio I work out of. Here is what I did, and would like to know if it was wise, boneheaded, or somewhere in between. Sorry this is getting long but long in detail will provide the best advice I feel. I removed the two abs motor relays, removed the pads and caliper on the offending side (passenger), put a 2x4 scrap in the calipers, replaced the relays and pumped the brakes to clamp down on the 2x4, thus opening up the piston enough for me to get at it. I then removed the rubber boot from around the piston (as well as the C ring that held it to the caliper), applied brake grease to as much of the piston as was available, replaced the rubber boot and C ring. I then removed the 2 relays again, forced the piston back to fully seated, and put everything back together. I must mention that when I removed the relays the second time the plastic covering popped off and I had to use pliers to grab what seemed like a sturdy metal bracket within the relay. After all was back together, this is when the ABS light, The exclamation with parenthesis light (can't remember what that's called but know it is brake related) and the red "brake" light a ll lit up. My first though was I screwed up the relay and a quick internet search indicated this could cause the warning lights. So I ordered two relays (used, was not going to pay $50 each to test a theory). While waiting for the parts, I continued to drive, taking care to brake lightly, drive slower, and use B mode when helpful. I definitely did not have any anti-lock action and probably no or lessened power assist. They are not hard to push but less responsive than before. During this time, my newly lubricated caliper did not smoke again, oddly the driver side has started to instead. Not knowing if it was the right thing to do in the first place, I have not performed the same piston lubing procedure and instead chose to wait for the relays. Well the relays came, I put them in. Instantly, the first one started running the ABS motor. Great sign I thought, except it never stopped running the motor and the lights did not go away. It seemed like the relay was stuck "open". So I put that one aside and tried every combination of the remaining three (one new one and my two old ones), nothing changed. My thoughts now lean towards something besides the relays. Could it be ABS sensor (will look at it tomorrow)? Did I do right or wrong putting brake grease on the piston? Should I do that to the driver side now? I know there could be other things and I am all for hearing about them. But I really feel this issue came on suddenly when I was screwing around with the passenger side caliper. No prior brake issues prior to the stuck caliper pin and no brake warning lights till after I lubed the caliper. What do I even look for when checking the ABS sensor (aside from an obvious loose connection? One final thing to consider, I hit a deer pretty good on the driver side and the fuse/relay box that houses the ABS relays did shift a small amount. it seems to have been pushed slightly down by the cross bar on the car body that goes along the bottom of the box. Was quite some time ago but it is possible there was minor wire damage that has finally culminated into a problem.
    Last thing, I ran techstream, here are the codes returned:
    C1253 (ABS/VSC/TRAC)
    C1256 (ABS/VSC/TRAC)
    C1341 (ABS/VSC/TRAC)
    And also these two not likely related codes:
    B1421 (Air Conditioner, a nothing code according to prior search)
    B1271 (Gateway)

    Thanks, I hope someone can help soon, I am supposed to drive to a large art show I am vending at on Friday. First leg of that 5 hour trip is down the same mountain that makes my brake(s) smoke!
     

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  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Might be a good idea to buy a subscription to the Toyota repair manual to look the codes up.

    From the Techstream attachment, C1253 has the INF code 132 (first value on the first screen shot). That’s pointing you toward resolution for that code.

    The other codes may have the same thing.

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
  3. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    It would be a great thing, but I can't right now. In the meantime, does anyone know what these codes are trying to tell me?
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    every google brings a dead end
     
  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    From my Bentley manual:

    brake.JPG
     
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  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I'll be the first to admit that my level of knowledge on the brake system is weak. One thing I do know, is that on a anti-lock brake car, I no longer push pistons back in unless the bleeder valve is open and the fluid dumps through a rubber hose into a waste container. Then I'll add fluid to the reservoir as needed. Personally, the last thing you want to do is push (old) fluid back through a device that isn't really made for it and probably doesn't like possible contaminants pushed through it. You may need to find a way to do a complete flush of the system.

    Maybe you can just clear the codes now that the relays are back in. See if they come back?
     
    #6 TMR-JWAP, Sep 5, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  7. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    Problem solved and detailed below. First thanks to everyone for their input. TMR-JWAP thanks for the image, I found that info eventually on techstream itself, still learning that program. I have always forced the calipers back on all my anti lock brakes and have never had an issue. Could be dumb luck, I'll look into it. I would be very careful opening the bleeders on a Prius unless you have Techstream or some other means of running the bleeding procedure. I think I would fill a good bit of the bleed tube with fluid and keep it held above the bleeder to avoid any chance of air getting in the lines. Tho I imagine if you just open the bleeder a little while simultaneously squeezing the piston with your hand, there would be little to no chance of air getting in. Is this how you would do it?

    Here are the steps I took as well as my hypothesis. Would love to hear from someone if my assumptions are correct. I bought two "new" (used) relays and switched them out, but no luck there. I then learned how to test relays and tested all four (2 old, 2 new), all four tested good. Personally, I think one of the new ones has an issue even tho it tested good but I won't bore you with those details. Just know that it led to false hope first then just more confusion. So, not the relays. Did some more research and decided to run the brake bleeding procedure, it had helped somebody in my situation. Although not mentioned in the step by step directions when using TechStream, the video I had watched suggested clearing all codes before running the bleeding procedure as it may not allow you to bleed the lines with the codes present. So I cleared the codes and followed the steps laid out by Techstream. It could not have been easier. When all was done my warning lights went away and my power assist and anti lock brakes were back. I saw no evidence of air in my lines and I sort of believe I might have only needed to clear the codes.

    Now I take wild guesses at everything and wait to be told if I am genius or stupid!
    I believe that error codes were triggered when I used the 2x4 to eject one piston (without ejecting it all the way). I think the system sensed one front piston was extended much further than the other and assumed a major issue. I believe that when they were put back on the car and pistons were now matching each other again, the codes still remained because it had detected a possibly very serious and dangerous issue and it needed to be told that it was looked at and addressed, i.e. a technician clearing the codes (or a hack with Techstream, like me).
    As for the smoking brakes when I went down the mountain I'm not exactly sure. It occurred twice, once before all the warning lights and ABS loss and once after. I have no idea why it happened the first time. I had ABS, new rotors, new pads, and no obvious braking issues (except the smoking, after the fact). I thought maybe the caliper was sticking, but in hindsight and having looked at it more I don't think it was, at least not after the initial brake job.
    I suppose it is possible that both similar instances of smoking brakes were from different causes. Perhaps the caliper was sticking (it obviously had spent some time not moving for the pin to have seized up). So although I had fixed the seized pin (and retracted the piston), maybe the caliper was still sticking until I lubricated the piston itself. This could be the cause of the passenger side smoking the first time. And it is possible that the driver side began smoking because, at that point, I had no ABS, no regenerative braking (I think), and maybe the smoking side was working harder because things were out of wack.

    All guesses, my car is back to normal and I am happy. I had no choice but to drive around with the crappy brakes, was nice to feel safe again.
     
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