New Hybrid Battery made by Dr. Prius, apparently [post copied from Prius C thread]

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by アレン・スピクタロン, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. Hi_prius3

    Hi_prius3 Junior Member

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    Yes, it's a little stressful.
    Your charger will charge and discharge the modules individually, but it cannot balance the hybrid pack like the prolong system. The replaced modules could still have different voltages and cause the P0A80. All the modules need to be about the same voltages to work well and not throw the code. At least that's what I think, but I'm still learning.
     
  2. アレン・スピクタロン

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    I think that you can balance the modules with the charger in the link i shared, there is people that use it for that if i'm correct.
     
  3. RGeB

    RGeB Junior Member

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    アレン・スピクタロン, if your mind is made up on LFP it is not my aim to sway you. You can spend your own money any way you wish. But in case you seek critical information:

    1.The videos I have seen do not use the kind of charging that will occur in a hybrid car, and they do not involve the confined space or cooling algorithm used in a hybrid car,so the temperatures they show have nothing to do with what will arise in use in the car.

    2. Most LFP BMS systems do not regulate input charge and should not be substituted for appropriate charge management algorithms for LFP in the charger (or car). In relation to charge current, LFP BMS systems are typically on/off safety systems of last resort (plus cell balancing in good BMS designs that connect to every cell).

    All this is explained in the post I linked above. It would be great to hear otherwise in a clear explanation (not an ambiguous advertisement) from a supplier of LFP traction batteries as 'drop in replacements' for NiMH. But from what has been revealed so far, no such thing exists (unfortunately).
     
  4. アレン・スピクタロン

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    The guy who made the Project Lithium Batteries has a Prius that uses the batteries he made, and the car has been used for a year i think and is doing fine for now, there are a few people that got the battery as well and is working fine, seems like even though the chemistry is different, he managed to make it work. At least that is what is looks like.
     
  5. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    Jack has been testing with his own cars for years now and there have been 10 testers who have been testing for a year.
     
  6. 2010moneypit?

    2010moneypit? Junior Member

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    Hopefully my original battery holds out for another year or so. And then I’ll make my decision at that point. I was going to be proactive and change it because it does not seem to be holding a charge but I have no codes so I’m gonna run with it.
     
  7. アレン・スピクタロン

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    Same here
     
  8. Mike Brisbin

    Mike Brisbin New Member

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    I'm thinking about buying one of Jacks batteries. How long have you had yours? How many miles have you put on it?
     
  9. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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  10. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    @Hi_prius3 and @アレン・スピクタロン concerning the skyrc hobby charger. It can do the job, how well depends on the level of experience using the charger and the knowledge of what to look for during and after the charge discharge cycles.
    In Jacks videos you can plainly see what he uses. And even though that charger is 4 or 5 times the price of the skyrc, Jack knows and can guide with prorper settings and what to look for if you ever have an issue with the pack. (see "Beyond this discussion" below) That is IMO the most valuable part to keep in mind, especially while learning a new technology.
    As I linked in the other thread about the NextPower packs, to the reseller balancing cables Jack sells, the balancing of the NextPower modules is done a bit differently than with a stock Nimh pack. I only have a limited understanding of the hows and whys the module balancing is done the way Jack has described in his videos, I'm certain Jack is well versed in the best practices of taking care of the NextPower packs he sells from what I've seen in video and read from beta testers.

    Beyond this discussion of chargers and balancing techniques, is the possibility of needing to actually do maintenance work on the packs. I'd suspect that charging and or balancing the NextPower pack would probably not be necessary for several years from purchase. But Jack is the one to offer that information, Not I.
     
    #30 vvillovv, Nov 6, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  11. Hi_prius3

    Hi_prius3 Junior Member

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    Thanks for your input on the SkyRC charger. I’m at the beginner level so I’m just trying to read and learn as much as I can before I begin trying to revive my hybrid battery. I’m getting the P0A80 code periodically, 2x/month.
    I did notice the icharger in the NexPower videos but it’s more $$$. I’m hoping to learn from other fellow members here, how to diy the battery successfully.
     
  12. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Hi Hi_prius3
    It's been recommended by others to use the PC search and google with terms and combination of terms like -traction pack - hybrid battery - reconditioning / conditioning / balancing - to find threads that sound similar to what you see happening with your car or that you want to know more about. like if not fully understanding what being discussed or why it works such and such a way with such and such a specific situation that's being discussed. ie: P0A80 twice a month is not that typical, although as you've already figured out it mean your high voltage pack needs help, and the sooner it gets ti the better both it and the car will be.

    I personally recommend finding a mentor who's descriptions of the process you trust, than copy as much of what you comprehend from the mentors descriptions as you can using the same equipment for the same battery pack size and type the mentor is using (when possible). Converting for size of the type of hybrid battery can triple or quadruple the complexity and confusion with results, until at very least one gets to the intermediate stage of understanding, which is where I consider myself presently. I know some stuff and how my stuff works pretty well, I'm not always so good at understanding others particular situations and results.

    Finally, you can always start a thread of your own doing your best to hit the main point(s) of your situation.
    vvillovv, Today at 3:31 AM
    edit: I just read Paul Highways P0A80 thread,
    My thoughts on Biomed01 recommendation for using the HF carbon pile discharge test is that it might be overkill, especially for older modules. With older weaker batteries that might still have some life left in them I think the 2 55watt headlight blubs in series is a much safer test to run. There are also several fairly resent posts with results from using the dual headlight discharge scenario to compare with, if you can find them using PC search.
    Again, much conflicting info around the subject of reconditioning. balancing and testing modules.
    When beginning disassembly for the first few times, make sure to take lots of pictures as you go. They can be life savers when it comes time to reassemble.
     
    #32 vvillovv, Nov 7, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
  13. Hi_prius3

    Hi_prius3 Junior Member

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    I’m currently on the mainland and haven’t been on here a while. Btw, I’m waiting to see how Paul does with his battery reconditioning and to see if I can follow his steps. His battery is newer, but at least it is similar being on island and it also has been sitting because of the pandemic. I know I have 3-4 weak modules per Toyota techstream.

    The P0A80 code seems to comes on randomly. I haven’t been able to figure out how or what triggers it yet. The car has been okay after resetting so far. I’ll take a better look at the battery during Thanksgiving weekend. Thanks for your input and advice.
     
  14. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I don't know why I let myself be pulled away from the main topic of this tread, which is Jacks project
    https://projectlithium.com/ ie: the iPower charger for the NextPower packs,

    OEM Nimh reconditioning should be discussed in other threads related to those common issues.
     
  15. wr69

    wr69 Junior Member

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    Generally, here is what I can add - I'm sure there is more:
    - number of power bars will diminish quickly
    - fuel economy will diminish substantially
    - dr prius makes an iphone app which can sort-of test the battery condition through an app wizard designed to do that*
    - car scanner plus makes an iphone app, which can give you battery stats.
    - for both apps, i recommend veepeak OBD adapter.
    - there has to be some DTC's for batteries dying too, which could be a smoking gun

    *the more advanced test has you run the car at high voltage draw for many minutes. and it has you rev up the engine while its in park. i was a little leery of doing those two things. And be careful with CO gas if you sit around in your car for 10-20 minutes. and obviously, dont do it in the garage.
     
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  16. MrPete

    MrPete Member

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    For overall pack condition, I highly recommend the Dr Prius app. It does work as a simple diagnostic. (Keep your expectations limited! This isn't about comparing a few percent difference... but Is The Pack Great/OK/Sketchy?

    Their method for drawing down and charging the pack is very safe:
    * It doesn't bypass the Prius ECU or other "smart" systems
    * The Prius takes care of limiting both charge and discharge: once the pack is at 70%, the "rev up" charge doesn't actually charge anymore. Likewise for discharge: the Prius will turn on the ICE (gas engine) to charge once you get down to 40% :)

    As for what causes the Scary Yellow Triangle... one item not often considered: what happens when accelerating up a steep hill, or braking going down?
    * You can't directly see without a Dr Prius or HA monitor, but if your pack is going bad, you'll feel it: power loss as the battery no longer contributes
    * With the monitor, one or more blocks will be VERY different from the rest. In Dr Prius, they'll actually be marked red.

    The key to this is high IR (Internal Resistance.) When a module has high IR, its voltage under high current will be very different.
     
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