1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

New Hybrid

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by fshagan, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    1,766
    4
    0
    Location:
    Noneofyourbusiness, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Cruise ships use diesel generators to produce electricity to power the ship's systems, as well for the large props. But even while in port, the cruise ship has to keep the generators running for the guests on board, even though there is no "cruising" going on. Its the equivalent of a car idleing in a parking lot ... but for all day as passengers leave the ship, and then return.

    Well, Holland America has been retrofitting its Alaska cruise ships from the Port of Seattle to operate off of shore power, saving most of the fuel they used to use for 1/7th of their operating schedule. Story is here, by a Hybrid car owner who recently reviewed the Holland America system.

    http://www.venturacountystar.com/vcs/trave...4965523,00.html
     
  2. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Sep 4 2006, 10:48 AM) [snapback]314054[/snapback]</div>
    That's great! Unusual also but allow me to correct just one small error, as I see it anyway.

    The orginial story read. . .

    What it should really say is . . .

    Heh, sorry just has to try that one on for size. Bully for them to find a way to save money and spew a little less pollution into the air...

    Wildkow
     
  3. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    1,766
    4
    0
    Location:
    Noneofyourbusiness, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Sep 4 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]314077[/snapback]</div>

    You would think that, but the modifications to the dock cost them 1.5 million, and each ship costs 1 million to modify. They do use about $5,000 a day in electrical cost while in dock, but I doubt this is solely a financial decision.

    I wish it was ... we would see more of it!

    And before someone mentions that they are just transferring the oil use from the ship to the power plant, 90% of the electricity they are using at the Port of Seattle is from hydroelectric power. While it may have localized environmental issues (such as destruction of native fish habitats), generation of hydroelectric power does not contribute to greenhouse gasses.
     
  4. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    4,717
    79
    0
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Sep 4 2006, 01:01 PM) [snapback]314092[/snapback]</div>
    That's not entirely true. Google Hydroelectic Emissions for more on this subject.

    I'm not saying that hydroelectric worse than hitler, but it's not without its own issues.

    Frankly, I'm amazed that they've been running generators on the ship for power. What an incredible waste of fuel and extra work for the generators. Seems like over the long haul they'd easily save money by using grid power over diesel.
     
  5. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    1,766
    4
    0
    Location:
    Noneofyourbusiness, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Sep 4 2006, 07:52 PM) [snapback]314326[/snapback]</div>
    Interesting ... I guess the action of the water coursing through the hydroelectric generators causes some of the hydrogen to be separated out. I'm wondering if this is more than the natural effect of the water falling over a waterfall due to cavitation (I couldn't find the original paper in the first Google link ... this is an issue I'll have to research a bit more).

    All the ship's systems use those generators, and the ships are usually away from shore power. It may be wrong to assume that they are less efficient than the local power utility that is burning coal or oil to generate electricity; where the utility has no need for efficiency if they can routinely pass the rate hikes along, the cruise ship has an economic incentive to make sure the fuel use is the most efficient it can be. And from a wear and tear standpoint, it is probably better to keep the generators running all the time.
     
  6. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    4,717
    79
    0
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I read somewhere that older power plants are somewhere around 38% efficient. Newer ones are much more efficient. There is the issue of transmission losses. I wonder what the efficiency of the generators is. I don't have a clue but I'd be surprised if they were as good as a power plant. The emissions from the generators would almost certainly be worse than from a power plant, but again I'm just speculating. Certainly compared to hydroelectric it's gotta be dirtier and more expensive kWh for kWh.

    As for the hydro turbines... I think it's the degassing of dissolved methane and CO2.