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New Iraq Thread: 3/22/06

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ghostofjk, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. ghostofjk

    ghostofjk New Member

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    I ask those posting here to refrain from name-calling and baiting. I'd like to go in another direction on Iraq, based on two new developments that came to light Tuesday.

    President Bush announced that we'll have troops in Iraq at least through the end of his administration, and that it'll fall to a future President to withdraw them.

    Sen. Feinstein (D-CA) called for Donald Rumsfeld to resign, and also proposed that US troops in Iraq be drawn down from the current level to 50,000.

    I think it's safe to say that both announcements are parts of larger strategies on the parts of the two parties. It's known that Republicans running this fall have brought pressure to bear on Bush to "come cleaner" on Iraq and to at least "humanize" his approach to his handling of the war. Bush did both Tuesday.

    I doubt Feinstein acted in isolation. I think she floated a trial balloon that could become the basis for a position that many Democrats, supported by the DNC, can run on. I think the Dems will easily tolerate those on the left wing of the party who advocate complete and early withdrawal, but want to establish a reasonable alternative that more moderate Dems (at least on Iraq) can rally around.

    Do you think the Congressional elections will largely amount to a referendum on Iraq? Do you think Bush is likely to "up the ante" by announcing an initial, partial drawdown of troops around, say, late summer (or sooner)?

    Do you think Bush will try to arrange with the new Iraqi government (if it ever materializes!) for the establishment of semi-permanent or permanent US bases there before he leaves office? SHOULD we have such bases---for example, to have a more direct impact on the behavior of (and outcomes in) Afghanistan, Iran, Syria and the Palestinian Authority?

    Should we be aiming to withdraw all forces by, say, the end of 2007? Regardless of whether an Iraqi civil war erupts, or looks likely IF we leave?

    Should we permit a civil war to occur there?

    Given our current presence in Iraq, what is a reasonable short-term (say, 3-7 years) role for the US in the Middle East?

    While I think strong criticism of Bush is inevitable here, I'd really like to see a relatively civil, constructive exchange. Like it or not, we are "living some history" at this juncture.
     
    #1 ghostofjk, Mar 22, 2006
  2. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    I regret to say that yes I think we will have troops in Iraq after Bush leaves office. How long is hard to determine and depends upon which party controls the Executive Office and Congress. While I think that the War on Terror is just and should include Iraq the more I read of and hopefully understand Islam the less likely I think a democratic system has a snowballs chance in hell. Therefore, I believe that Feinstein's goal of reducing troop levels to 50K is not a bad idea although I worry how we can protect our troops at those levels. I think her call for Rumsfield to step down is just a political ploy and serves no other function than that.

    I think that a large part of the election will hinge on the Iraqi question and I don't believe that we have any choice in the matter of a civil war in Iraq it will either happen or it won't. I think the people of Iraq have all the power in this area and if they want a civil war they will have it. It will start between the Shia and the Sunnis and inevitably drag in the Kurds, Terrorist and other foreign fighters.

    I believe the partial drawdown on troops has been discussed for the last 6-10 months and that its political in nature with the election in mind and partially common sense.

    I don't think that we should ever establish bases in that part of the world and if they continue with their policies as such we should further isolate from them as their culture is repressive and tends to extremes. A great majority of them wish to wipe out the Jews in some type of genocidal conflict but even if successful they won't be happy they won't change except to focus their hate in a new direction or different enemy such as us. It is ingrained and taught to them in the form of hate from an early age by the Mullah's and other religious fanatics. Which is a problem with combining the political state with religion, as the Catholic have proven and now again want to institute. Just as the Religious Right in this country will soon make us aware of as they try to gain a wider power base and more influence in Right Wing and Left Wing politics in this country. When that starts happening beware.

    While I don't believe that near enough time has been spent in Iraq attempting to set up a democratic government I don't think that democracy is viable as a system in the Islamic Culture. They don't seem to understand that you must have a Rule of Law as the standard and not mix some religious laws in amongst them. But that is their system and culture and I doubt we can talk them out of it. And besides who wants to support a bunch of men repressing women? They resent us because we have humiliated them by our success when any astute student of history can plainly see that it is the freedom we afford the women in our society that has enabled us and allowed us to move so rapidly ahead.

    Get out of Iraq somewhere in 2007-08 support rational governments and overthrow again any that don't play by the rules of rational nations. That's it in a nutshell could use some fleshing out but I leave this to more brillant minds than my own.

    OTOH if we don't allow a civil war over there we may just drag this bloody conflict along for another decade and that would be a shame as many more innocents’ could die.

    God Bless Us with wise leaders whom ever they maybe.

    My two cents, hope that’s what you wanted as far a rhetoric. Kinda late so I hope it makes sense.


    Wildkow
     
    #2 Wildkow, Mar 22, 2006
  3. ghostofjk

    ghostofjk New Member

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    I guess not too many besides Wildkow and I were posting at 3 am, so I'm gonna

    *kick*
     
    #3 ghostofjk, Mar 22, 2006
  4. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    Couldn't sleep. :rolleyes:
     
    #4 Wildkow, Mar 22, 2006
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