New Traction Battery Cost: Start Shopping Here

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by SageBrush, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. kinglew

    kinglew Member

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    Yes
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no. yes?o_O
     
  3. gdanner

    gdanner Member

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    Does anyone know how to determine module age from its serial number?

    I'm aware that module age can be roughly determined from the following data:
    1. Both gen2 and gen3 Prius modules are part number NP2
    2. The version can be (none) or it can be B2, B3, B4, B5
    3. B2 (or no version label) is used in original factory gen2 HV battery packs (model years 2004-2009)
    4. Versions B3, B4, B5 are used in original factory gen3 HV battery packs (model years 2010 to present)
    But I'd like to pin it down to the actual year/month that a module was manufactured.

    -EB
     
  4. gdanner

    gdanner Member

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    Might it be the case that Toyota has a warehouse full of older (but unused) NP2 modules that they use for their "replacement HV packs?"

    Perhaps a module that's been stored unused for several years will typically have about 4 Ah left?

    -EB
     
  5. kiwi

    kiwi Member

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    You need 3D QR scanner to read inverse code on the module. Then convert Japanese year into what you got used to.
    Convert Western and Japanese years

    e.g. 2015 is year 27 in Japan
    2009 is year 21 in Japan

    You can be bothered with years, but that does not mean that "fresh year" module is good, remember it is number of cycles (e.g. more miles - more cycles) is what degrades the modules rather than age.
    Think about a module that came from taxi which can make hundreds of thousands kms/miles in one year.
    I saw working modules 12 year old (low ODO).
    I have nearly finished testing another batch of 15 year old packs from NHW-10 (first ever Prius) - those are old but low odo. 20% failed or have reduced capacity (<3AH) and 80% showed > 3.8AH tested down to 7V @ 6Amp load.
     
  6. kiwi

    kiwi Member

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    4 Ah of what excactly? Measured how? That is to be discussed ...

    Replacement pack for NHW20 from Toyota comes in a cardboard box - 28 modules assembled with the voltage detective lines loom [ends with the orange plug] being attached.
    I have tested one of those "brand new" packs from Toyota after it has been installed on the car while it was on the car.
    Attached Analyser and measured and plotted on a time line many things including how much capacity was drawn before MTG have started that 2009 Prius and what happened next.
    Captured what was the minimum voltage drop per module, the current drawn and Delta V on pairs. Identified important benchmarks to set up standards for testing second hand and rebuild packs.

    When we are talking about "Capacity left" - I use 3 metrics (FCC, RC, URC), one of which (URC) I have introduced myself and suggest to use as an Industry Standard for second hand and rebuild NiMH Battery Packs.

    FCC and RC are used by TI in relation to Li-Ion but also applicable for individual NiMH modules.

    I suggest URC (Usable Remaining Capacity) in relation to assembled pack is specific to NiMH in Toyotas and could reflect best what you get for your buck when looking at second hand or rebuild pack. You won't see that lebel on a new for sure...

    I put definitions in here:
    Glossary - HYBRIDS
    I have not specified Current, Voltage and Delta V for URC intentionally in the Glossary page at this stage, although it is clear for me what those could be. I've dropped clues before.

    URC as a metric is open for feedback, discussions and consultation from all parties involved - rebuilders, end-users and manufacturers. Customer experience is of paramount importance.

    P.S. Just finished free test for mates of their NHW20. URC is 3.7AH @ 5.3A Down to Delta V < 0.5V FYI - All but one module were well above 7V at the end of test.

    In New Zealand I am currently offering to free test NHW20 packs in my Lab on condition that those will be heavily used (e.g. Taxi) and could be periodically tested to see how URC decrease with ODO.


    That will help to collect stats and assist in answering frequent question: "How long that second hand / rebuild pack may last?" i.e. URC XX AH - Decreased by XX% or failed after XX miles.

    In my opinion that more important than warranty. As a driver you do not want your car stopped unexpectedly interstate even if still under warranty. It is better to have peace of mind that there are a lot of URC left.

    Ideally someone could buy me a Lexus GS450 2015 or Prius 2015 or Prius C (or all three, why not) so that I permanently install HV Battery Analysers inside and start collecting data and publish it online.

    I could’ve given away my exclusive 28-channel or 38-channel Analyser with couple of licenses as a bonus to donating party. :) (conditions apply).
     
    #66 kiwi, Jul 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
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  7. kammssss

    kammssss Member

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    Anyone else with experience with Toyota of San Bernardino? Seems like a hassle. Maybe I missed it, but are the new cells plug and play? They are charged/balanced, right?
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    correct. you might swap over the pc boards, but that's easy.
     
  9. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    It is definitely NOT "plug and play", and is not that easy.
    There are quite a few components that need to be swapped over. Some of the clips are a little tricky to take off.
    Torqueing the bolts on the new wires is very important. And make sure not to cross them.
    Also be sure to have a big enough safety area since you will have the cover of the battery off, as well as the platstic loom covers off.

    The dealer has a specific protocol as to how you return it and how you label it.
    You will need to put the non-conductive mats inside the old battery pack before putting the cover back on.
    Also need to rebag and tape up the exposed connectors.
    Lastly label the old battery with VIN# and mileage.
    On some other thread I have pictures of a swap mid-way through the process so you have an idea of what you are getting into.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i retract my statement.:oops:
     
  11. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Anyone have luck finding a cheap over the counter option in Oregon (no sales tax).
     
  12. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    First, tell me why does your location say SFO when you are asking about Oregon ... then I may (or may not) give you a tip about a dealer in Oregon that may meet your needs -- note I said may...they have ALWAYS given me a great price, but parts guys tend to like me -- maybe because I don't hassle them.

    Oh, and the most important thing. Ducks? Beavers?
    Kris
     
  13. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Location does matches the nick. Likes both Ducks and Beavers, but prefers Platypi.

    Always thought the most important thing was. Bagby? Terwilliger?
     
  14. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Hmmm.///either you or I am having problems with English.

    Just asked why a person in SFO would want to buy in Oregon.

    And, as an extra strike, wrongo on your answer about Ducks and Beavers.

    As well as the rest. Normally I am a fairly mellow sort, but feeling a bit more cranky today.

    Just so you know where I stand.

     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    san fran/oregon?

    were you there when legarrette blount sucker punched that guy from boise?

    2 Super Bowl rings with the pats!(y)
     
  16. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Well, Bisco.

    There is a world of diff between SF and Eugene, Oregon. Both liberal, but in a way different way.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    another world, but what is the o in sfo?
     
  18. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    The airport code for San Francisco is SFO.

    Just so you know, because my dad is a freak about Mark Twain, Twain said the coldest summer he ever spent was a summer in San Francisco. It is my favorite big city, although I pretty much hate big cities.

    My dad took my brother and I to Alcatraz prison in the San Francisco bay when we kids and we had a great time.

    Look up the Clint Eastwood movie "Escape from Alcatraz."
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've seen it, great flick. we we're there a couple years ago. i'm kinda stuck on the sausilito area.

    hey, see my edit in post #75.
     
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  20. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    My grandmother lives north of the bay. She is not doing well. Thanks for the reminder. LOL.

    Guess I had better be planning a trip down there. Hey, I can hit Luscious Garage.

    And, I have no idea what you are talking about with those edits....I am a biologist by training, so if you are talking about owls, frogs, newts....bacteria, etal...
     
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