New VW TDI Commercial disses PRIUS

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by djasonw, May 23, 2009.

  1. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That's because GM named it to 2-mode in order to compete with HSD. Basically, they want to say HSD has one mode but their Tahoe hybrid has two modes. The underlying message they tried to convey is that two is better than one. The message that got out was that it is too complicated and questionable reliability due to the use to clutches and multiple planetary gear-sets. 2-mode was hyped to be superior to be on the highway. After all said and done, 2-mode highway MPG was no better than HSD. HSD may even be better with the latest gen found in 2010 Prius.

    Two mode hybrid originated from the hybrid bus so they put it in the big truck and big SUV. It was too big to put in the family sedan to compete with Prius, Camry, or Fusion hybrid.

    Further work were done to reduce the size of 2-mode hybrid transaxle and it was suppose to be fitted into Saturn Vue compact SUV. Now that Saturn is "dead" we can not be sure what will happen to the simplified 2-mode.

    The only advantage 2-mode has over HSD is probably towing capacity. That's because 2-mode works like an automatic transmission with two huge electric motors. Since it shifts gears (total of 4), the torque can be multiplied through mechanical path.

    Two Mode Transaxle below includes two electric motors:
    [​IMG]
    Another Two Mode Transaxle:
    [​IMG]

    2010 Prius HSD transaxle:
    [​IMG]

    For more info on 2-Mode: Global Hybrid Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    More comparison in this thread: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-main-forum/59027-picture-2010-prius-transaxle-compared-others.html
     
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  2. nthach

    nthach New Member

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    That really is complicated, Toyota keeps things nice and simple. I wonder how well will GM's hybrids holdup in the long run...
     
  3. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The pics are not in the same scale and you can't really see the clutches. There is a cut-away pic with more parts in the thread I linked. DSG is very complicated also.
     
  4. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    It looks complicated until you see a regular automatic transmission. A 5-speed automatic has 3 sets of planetary gears, 7 clutches, 2 bands, and hydraulic circuits to control everything.

    HowStuffWorks "How Automatic Transmissions Work"
     
  5. nthach

    nthach New Member

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    Unless we're speaking Honda - their automatics are basically automated manuals. The synchros and all but 1 shift fork are replaced by multiplate clutches with 3 hydraulic circuits, and the reverse gear keeps a hydraulically-operated shift fork.
     
  6. greenmanjph

    greenmanjph New Member

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    What VW doesn't seem to understand is that a lot pf people choose hybrids over other cars for more than just MPG. It's to lessen the environmental impact of greenhouse gases going into the air. Sure, the new VW may get more MPG than the Prius, but I'm sure almost everyone's had the misfortune of being stuck behind a diesel engine vehicle while on the road and have to close the windows just to keep from gagging because of all the soot and other particulates coming out of the exhaust. One diesel powered vehicle can pollute the air more than four regular vehicles, and other than biodiesel, there is no such thing as clean diesel (just like there's no such thing as "clean coal").

    Well, that's my 2 cents, and I can live happier knowing that even though I may get only 45 mpg (until the 100+ mpg plug-in hybrids come out and I buy one), I'm putting less pollution in the air than a car that gets 50 mpg.
     
  7. nthach

    nthach New Member

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    It's corporate or brand image too. VWs have been associated with the hipster crowd for god knows how long. They've been known for sub-par reliablity as well.
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Is this smack any better than the anti-hybrid smack equating the Prius and Insight to electric golf carts?
     
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  9. liverbomb88

    liverbomb88 Push the Button!

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    +1
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Put another way, Kia sells more cars in the U.S. than does V.W.

    ouch!


    The long run? GM has put the brakes on a few hybrid models that were supposed to be Toyota competition. Can you spell vaporware? True, it's because GM leadership ran the once mighty business into the ground, and blew through taxpayer handouts faster than anyone could imagine, and still went bko ... but it's a pity. If only . . .

    .
     
  11. Hamri

    Hamri New Member

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    I've been trying to make a decison for a long time wheather to buy a Toyota-hybrid or a VW-tdi, so i did follow an advice from a friend to test them, so I went ahead and test drove a 09-VW-tdi vs. a Toyota hybrid.

    I must say that I have to tip the hat off to that 09-VW-tdi car, it is nice, powerful(fun to drive) and comfty, and also gives you great mpg's, to be honest I do not think the Prius for me and my other half, would have a chance to be compared to the new TDI, at least for the new toyota-hybrid that I test drove.

    We have been following and reading the discussion and comparisson from this thread and we came to the conclusion that it is fair to do a comparisson toyota-Hybrids against all other hybrids, but I would think when it comes to a TDI you would need to compare them to other cars , so basically it is unfair to do the comparisson,, even my other half fell in love with the TDI, maybe it is just me and her, but the 09 is a wonderful car. I hope I do not get flamed by expressing my personal opinion.
     
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Why don't you tell us what you like about TDI more than the Prius? And why you came to conclusion that they are not comparable?

    When you say "new toyota-hybrid that I test drove", is it 2009 or 2010 model?

    What do you define as "fun to drive"?

    Having driven my Prius for almost 100k miles, I still find it fun to drive. The fun in driving Prius may be an "acquired taste" to many because it is so new in the long automotive history. You can't dismiss beer because it tastes bitter and claim the lemonade is better. You may not have acquired the fun in driving Prius by just one test drive because there are so many things you don't know or are unaware of.

    You don't know things that you don't know. You came to the right place to learn about hybrid exclusive premium fun features.
     
  13. Prius 06

    Prius 06 Member

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    I've been watching the 09 Tdi guys on the tdi forums. So far, I've been seeing alot of them reporting problems with them. Alot even claiming that they notice the problems as soon as they get home from the dealer with the car.
    The other thing I've noticed is alot of the guys (older tdi's) think that the exhaust on the 09's are going to be a pain to replace and expensive.

    I've been thinking of getting a 09 Tdi wagon as my lease on my Subaru is up soon. But it's looking like I'm staying with Subaru again.
    btw, our Prius isn't going ANYWHERE!
     
  14. Hamri

    Hamri New Member

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    I drove an 09 Prius and an 09 TDI, fun to drive for me is the power that its got, the interior of the 09 TDI looks far superior than the Prius, and it also feels that if you go in a long trip TDI would be more comfortable and safer than the Prius, when you seat on the TDI, you imediatly feel the car more pleasant, cornering with the TDI is way way better as well, I personally think every aspect on the 09-TDI is more solid and better than the Prius, like I said this is my personal opinion.

    By the way I have driven so many times my sister car which happens to be a Prius and I do not dislike the car at all, I am just expressing here and making a comparisson about the 09-TDI against Prius.
     
  15. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    You "sound" young or from another country besides the U.S.. Your opinion could change as you get older but for now if you enjoy the TDi more then go for it. It's all about what you prefer, not the rest of us. Some like blondes, some like redheads.... ;)
     
  16. Bica2go

    Bica2go New Member

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    Hamri, I drove a 09 TDI as well. It was very sporty, a lot of fun and the sunroof was incredibly quiet. I will reconsider it when I look to replace my Audi A4 in a couple of years. For now, I am seriously concerned about its reliability and the '09 wagon doesn't even have any buttons on the steering wheel (what's up with that?). A new model comes out in the fall that will hopefully correct this silly oversight. The Prius driving experience is very different and has its features and benefits too. Add to that the better reliability and mileage and I decided it was the car for me at this time. I wish you well with your TDI. There's room on the road for both of us.
     
  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That's the last generation. Did you try the Touring Edition or the regular edition?

    In any case, try out the 2010 newer generation. It handles better and has more powerful engine with power mode. It also gets higher MPG and everything about Prius was improved.

    What MPG did you get during your test drives?
     
  18. Prius 06

    Prius 06 Member

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    Exactly, why would you compare a 09 Tdi to what is really a 04 Prius???
    It's as bad as those commercials and youtube videos comparing them.
     
  19. freo-1

    freo-1 New Member

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    I agree that the 2010 handles better than the 2009 Prius, but disagree against the Prius Touring (the 2009 Touring is MUCH better than the standard 2009 Prius). That is one of the primary reasons I got a 09 touring instead of a 2010 standard.

    Reliability is also a big issue. VW is sadly having issues with that (and have for some time).

    A buddy of mine has a 8 cyl. Passat, and VW has spent almost 40K in warranty work!!
     
  20. dalea

    dalea Junior Member

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    I own a '07 touring Prius option 6 (40K miles) and a 09' Jetta TDI (10K miles). Both cars have a perfect repair record with only scheduled normal servicing performed. The Jetta definitely feel better to drive on our rough road surfaces. The Prius does mostly suburban driving and yield a consistent 49-50 mpg (MFD). The Jetta does more highway driving with only some suburban/urban driving and mileage varies between 38 and 50. A rough guess at an average for the Jetta would be 44-45 mpg. My readings from both cars comes from the computers and not from actual fill-up numbers. At highway speeds (75 MPH) the Prius MPG seems to drop to close to the Jetta at the same speed. Too much traffic here to do any hyper MPG driving. The Prius is loaded with technical marvels and seems to lead the pack with innovations and solid reliability. The Jetta TDI is a very nice, fun to drive sedan with advanced engineering with its clean burning diesel engine. Contrary to what a few people have said about the Jetta, it is quiet, doesn’t smoke and doesn’t smell. For its heavier weight the Jetta gets great mileage plus it has great acceleration with its low speed high torque. The Jetta will cost more for scheduled service (after the warranty expires) but only goes in half as much as the Prius. (10K miles vs. 5K). Will be interesting to see if VW comes out with a small lightweight vehicle with a clean burning diesel engine. I like both cars and love getting the high mileage. Both of these cars are pace setters for long overdue improvements in autos. I would love to see many more hi-mileage cars on the road.
     
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