1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

New Water Heater?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Stevewoods, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    647
    983
    0
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Getting mixed messages!

    My USA household electric Rheem Water heater is coming on 20 years old.

    My plumber, who is a good guy and I know "outside the job" says his same model is 23 years old and he is not worried.

    But, his is outside his home. Mine is inside.

    I have posted and read the various DIY forums and am getting mixed messages. Seems a number of folks go my plumbers route and say not broke, don't worry.

    Others disagree. Any thoughts?
     
  2. scona

    scona Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    225
    206
    0
    Location:
    Courtenay, BC, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    N/A
    I too have an electric water heater that is currently 23 years of age. I was called by my home insurance company rep 3 years ago and told that the heater was too old and needed replacing. I disagreed with him and they gave me the option of replacing it or losing the water flooding portion of the policy until the heater is changed. To date the heater is operating fine and will be replaced when it fails or shows signs of the same. The loss of the flooding clause applies solely to water heater failure.[/QUOTE]
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,314
    15,101
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Wizardly water heater secret: there's an "anode rod" in there. It's just a rod, made out of either magnesium or aluminum. Both metals are far enough from steel on the galvanic series (and in the right direction) that pretty much as long as the rod is still there, it is being sacrificially corroded by the hot water, and the steel tank isn't. You can pull it out from the top of the heater from time to time and check. On the left is a new one, the right came out of my water heater at about nine years:
    shot0002.jpg
    I also used the same opportunity to flush as much as I could of the accumulated mineral flakes out of the bottom of the tank, and stick an inspection camera in to look for any signs of tank rust. It looked beautiful, so in went the new rod, may not check again for several more years.

    Did my sister's a year ago, but hers hadn't been checked for longer (as in "never", and she wasn't sure how old the tank was, either):
    anode.jpg

    Oops. :) But the inside of the tank still didn't show obvious rust on the inspection camera yet, so a new rod went in there too, and we'll see if we caught it in time.

    Rheem makes nice, resistored, magnesium rods (worth thinking about as a replacement even if they weren't the original brand of your water heater).

    In essence, the anode rod, hot water, and steel tank make a battery, and the current flows in the direction to corrode the rod, not the tank. Magnesium makes a somewhat stronger battery than aluminum, and if the stronger current is more than it takes to protect the steel tank, then it would only eat the rod faster with no benefit. So, they can build a little resistor into the top of the rod:
    shot0001.jpg
    to end up with a magnesium rod that produces a lower, more controlled current, and lasts longer while still protecting the tank.

    A one-and-one-sixteenth-inch socket is what you need on the top hex to loosen the thing, preferably impact rated. I've never had one budge without using an impact wrench, patiently for a minute or more (i.e. several thousand impacts). Once it starts to budge, it comes right out nice as you please.

    If patience isn't your long suit, you can make a mark with a Sharpie between the hex head and the tank. For a good long while with the impact wrench, that mark will stay right where you made it. Eventually you will check and see it has maybe moved by the width of the Sharpie line. At that point you know you're winning, and it will shortly be coming right out.

    -Chap
     
  4. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    A lot of new water heater installations include a "pan" underneath with a drain hole/hose fitting.
    Depending upon where it is located, that can be a VERY good idea.
    Throw in an inexpensive "high water alarm" and you pretty well have all the bases covered.

    BUT......if you are considering adding a pan to an OLD unit, the labor cost will make that impractical.

    Assess the potential for damage if it does leak.
    If you live in an upper floor of an apartment building.......that should sway your decision. ;)
     
    Stevewoods and RCO like this.
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,742
    11,327
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    As mentioned, as long as that sacrifical anode rod is checked and replaced, the tank will be fine. The main difference between the 'years' rating of water heaters is the number and thickness of those rods. There are rods that fit into the tank inlet if you want to increase the number of them in your tank.

    Be sure to use the same material for all the rods in your tank. If they are different, one of the rods will protect the other, and not the tank.

    It is also important to flush the tank. The deposit of that sediment will eventually choke off the lower heater in an electric resistant heater, and burn it out.

    If that regular maintenance is done, the only reason to replace the water heater is in order to get a more efficient one. Heat pump models use electricity for the trade off of having a more mechanically complex unit. They do have other pluses. They'll dry out an damp space as they are basically a dehumidifier too, and some models allow the cold air output to be ducted into the homes HVAC system.
     
    Stevewoods likes this.
  6. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Or when it springs a leak due to something not protected by the anode rods.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,742
    11,327
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Such as?
    Only the flush/drain spigot comes to mind, and that can be replaced. The site where I learned about the anodes actually recommends replacing the factory one with a ball valve before even installing the heater.
     
    Stevewoods likes this.
  8. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    647
    983
    0
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Wow.

    Extremely excellent information here and some work put forth. I highly, highly appreciate it.

    I have a strange case. The WH is in an interior laundry room. The ceiling is only a few feet from the top of the WH, so not enough room to pull the rod. I did have the plumber put a REAL drain valve on the WH when it was installed and I do drain the gunk out each summer...thinking I better get to that in the next few weeks.

    I also had a pan put under it at the time of install.

    But,. I also take care of my in-laws WH and I am printing information out from this thread to use on the care of their WH, which is only 16 years old. LOL. But at least theirs is in their garage.

    Thanks again, all. Still thinking on my options.
     
  9. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    That is ONLY the valve mechanism inside the spigot.
    The expansion and contraction of heating and cooling over 20 years can make most any part fail.
    Including the tank liner, the drain spigot and the inlet and outlet pipe attachment points.

    But I absolutely agree that if it seems to be working OK and it is not located in a place that would do a LOT of damage if a leak should occur.......then by all means, leave it alone.

    I had one fail last year. In the garage. The leak was rather small and the water ran across the garage floor and out under the door.
    It was about 12 years old.
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,314
    15,101
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Pulling the old one out may not be much trouble, if it is used up thin enough to easily bend. If it isn't, it's probably still good for a while. :)

    You can buy new ones that are linked-sausage-shaped so that it's possible to sneak them in under a low ceiling. Home Depot sells them, IIRC. I don't know if you can get the nice resistored magnesium ones in that form though.

    The landing atop the basement stairs is what my WH lives under. Not much room for top access there either, so I made some small mods: 1) removed the baseboard/toe moldings above the landing and put them back with all nails going sideways, into the walls (none down into the landing); 2) used a flush-cut blade on an oscillating tool, from beneath, to cut the nails attaching the landing floorboards to the joists.

    That left the whole landing just sitting on the joists, with its edges in channels formed by the baseboard/toe moldings, so it's now a sliding panel that gives complete unfettered access to the top of the WH when open. :D

    -Chap
     
    RCO likes this.
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,742
    11,327
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Being a ball valve doesn't mean it is a good ball valve.

    What was the year rating and brand of the unit?
    Do you soften the water, or have soft water? Soft water leads to less mineral sludge, but eats up the anodes quicker than hard water.
     
  12. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    I have no idea.
    Do you keep track of that kind of information.......about things 12 years old that went to the landfill 2 years ago ??
    I certainly don't.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,742
    11,327
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I do so that I know whether or not to buy them again.
     
    SFO likes this.