Nissan hybrids claim to outsell Prius in Japan

It's cheaper, faster but also gets lower MPGs.

It's a step forward since it might be an everymans hybrid, trouble is it's suited to city driving, highway MPGS are meh at best.

 

As a pure series hybrid, it will help Nissan spread the the cost of motors and inverters used in its BEVs out over more units. Which might be why they went that route for a home hybrid.

Beating the Prius and thus the Prius c/Aqua, which would be its closer competitor in Japan is impressive. Even with a lower price, I wouldn't expect strong sales in the US with our market though. It might do well in Europe, with Nissan seeing Toyota's hybrid success there.

 

The weakness is in at highway speeds where the conversion losses start getting worse. Honda opted to clutch the ICE in at higher speeds with their dual motor system for that reason. This would be a bigger deal in the US than Japan, and maybe Europe.

Audi went with three set speeds on A1 Etron test mules because some people found a single engine speed that was isolated from the car speed, um, unsatisfactory. I guess dampening the ICE noise while amping up the motor's might be something to try for those cases.

 

Unlike the Volt though, Nissan’s e-Power system cannot be charged with a plug. Nissan’s e-Power system keeps the petrol engine working continuously at its sweet spot, instead of revving up and down.
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I drive a BMW i3-REx and have done several long distance trips with the REx:

• 40 MPG @65 mph
• 38 MPG @70 mph
• 34 MPG -20% SOC per tank @75 mph

The problem is the REx engine is not optimized. For example, the rated power ~70 hp in the motorcycle is derated to ~35 hp in the BMW which strongly suggests the throttle plate is partially closed causing pumping losses. Also, it lacks cooled exhaust recirculation and Atkinson valve timing. Tweaking the 600 cc engine should easily add 10-20% efficiency to the BMW i3-REx. It still won't solve the SOC loss at 75 mph which is a vehicle drag problem.

It makes sense to bring the Nissan Note e-Power to the USA market with the addition of a plug. Here us an Aussi review: 2017 Nissan Note e-Power first drive review

The Note e-Power's aim is reduce fuel consumption, and an official Japanese-cycle fuel consumption figure (which is a little more generous than the Australian cycle) of 2.7l/100km, compared with 3.8 l/100km for a conventional 1.2 litre petrol-driven Note which offers less power and torque, is proof that it works.​

Bob Wilson

 

Not necessarily - it probably gets it through rev limiting.

Peak power (and torque, interestingly, which does mean that the cam profile isn't optimized) is at 4300 RPM - compare to the scooter, which has peak power at 7500 RPM, and peak torque at 6000 RPM. So, I think BMW just put a low rev limiter on it.

 

And the rev limiter operates the . . . throttle?

Yes, the generator could in theory increase the torque enough to keep the ICE from over speeding. But based on poor fuel consumption, I'm pretty sure it is not a thermally efficient engine/generator.

Bob WIlson

 

The generator will keep load on the engine such that it's not going above redline, I'm certain.

But, yeah, you're dealing with a cheap scooter motor, thermal efficiency isn't their forte. I wouldn't be surprised if it's only 30% efficient. (Edit: Oh, you already investigated this.)

 

wow....
we have not seen Japan car sales by model lately, but Gen4 Prius, and before that Aqua (Prius c) have topped the list for many years. It's hard to believe NOTE exceeds Aqua+Gen4 but sounds impressive. We'd need to know if it is short term blip or what.

 

The hurdle to putting a plug on this Note is that it will also need a larger battery. US incentives would cover the cost, but not change the fact that that this a small car. Getting the hybrid system into the ICE chassis would not require much in the way of changes. A larger battery would, or losing interior space.

 

Epower is in test around Detroit

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171114/OEM05/171119883/nissan-tests-versa-note-e-power-hybrid-for-u-s?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

This e-power system seems would benefit from a small diesel engine generating power.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

The hurdle to a diesel hybrid is the increased cost for the engine and emission controls. Hybrid alone is hard enough at this time.

 

NA Diesel bifuel (e85 + Diesel)
Is a very promising way to both get emissions down and reduce cost by eliminating the need for a turbo (e85 engines have more power per liter than gas)

The e85 is injected in the center of the diesel fuel charge in a multi injection event

The e85 vaporizes blowing the diesel droplet into finer than normal particles
Followed by a late injection of e85 or water drops NOx to nearly zero and adds power.

 

Heres the data ...Prius still King ...no info on Prime vs. Gen4 that I see immediately

2017 (Q3) Japan: Best-Selling Car Brands and Models - Car Sales Statistics

 

I bet that engine is still going to have a substantial cost increase over a gasoline one. Part of diesel's higher cost is the fact that more metal is needed to hold up to the higher pressures, and this adds a second fuel system.

So it can be great for trucking, but still has the same hurdle to a hybrid car.

 

The 1980’s era 100mpg Daihatsu Charade diesel only weighed 20 lbs more than its gasoline counterpart.

Cooling and power become the issue in straight diesels, you get one and need the other.

 

Nobody's going to want to deal with a dual fuel system (now you need to find a station that has both E85 and one that has diesel?), and AdBlue systems basically only work for customers if the dealer handles filling it at every service interval, so the customer doesn't have to worry about it.

Also, one of the biggest reasons for low specific output from diesels is the slow-burning nature of the fuel, limiting engine RPM. A shot of E85 won't help that much, and that's not a good regime for high efficiency (note that the Prius engine sticks to ~5200 RPM maximum, not too far above diesels' normal operating region).

And, a Daihatsu Charade diesel was not getting 100 miles per US gallon on any reasonable test cycle. Maybe if you were hypermiling it, maybe. It was also horrifically slow, far too slow for any new car in the US market (where poorly-designed freeways with almost zero merging space are something that almost every car has to be able to deal with).

 

The station I fill at has diesel and e85 on the same pump e85 left diesel right.