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Nissan Leaf - buyers claim they were misled on range and charging speed

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by el Crucero, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Nissan 'misled' buyers of electric cars Nissan originally quoted the NEDC (New European Driving Cycle) estimate for range at 235 miles which is wildly optimistic and inaccurate. Nissan has admitted that the range is not accurate and has revised the range to 168 miles. But independent testing shows that under normal driving conditions the range is just a bit better than 100 miles of range. Generally speaking, US EPA estimates tend to be closer to 'real world' expectations.

    Why did I post this in the Tesla sub-forum? The EPA originally calculated the model 3 Long Range at 334 miles of range. For some reason (maybe to avoid disappointed customers with unrealistic expectations) Tesla decided to post the range at 310 miles. However, the model 3 has been out for a year now and most owners (not all) are reporting a range in the 330's depending on a less aggressive driving style (holding the speed to below 70 mph on the highway). I am happy to see Tesla under promising and over delivering. (y)
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't know who is more confusing, nissan or bbc. poorly written, just like many tesla hit pieces.
     
  3. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    I think you have that backwards!
     
  4. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    How much is a Leaf? Why bag on an ESTABLISHED auto maker who is trying to save the plant.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Why bag on a new car company trying to save the planet?

    Nissan has two issues here, and one is not of their making. That one is that the NEDC testing yields unrealistically optimistic results for car efficiency. With an ICE car, the people will bitch and moan about it while filling up more often than the official numbers claim. For a BEV, it makes a car unsuitable for a person's use appear suitable.

    Publishing just the best case speed for DC charging is entirely Nissan's fault. Their engineers would have known that their limited battery cooling would result in a wide range of charging times in actual practice. I have to note that hydrogen advocates are just as guilty when quoting the 3 minute fill up time.
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    ummm, because they rush their plugins to market even before they know how well it even works?
    Our 1st year Leaf for example - they published a 100 mile range, when in fact you were lucky to get 80 miles. When owners complained, Nissan tried to say, "we never promised the packs wouldn't quickly cook itself" - and - "we never said it would go 100 miles per charge". They were careful to not publish what they said in most instances, but fortunately I kept some of the mouse pads they were doling out;
    10437376.jpg
    Ooops. Then - there was the whole fiasco with horrible capacity loss .... as though Nissan presumed owners never drove in hot temp's. They have failed to build in decent thermal protection. Now? w/ higher range? Packs will likely overheat even quicker as their cells are even more tightly packed. Yea, it's great Nissan took an early risk building the Leaf - but is it just more of the same disaster waiting to happen?
    .
     
  7. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    The risk we take in buying new technology, no different then 100 years ago buying a new car over a horse.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    that's true, but how do companies deal with their failures? Example with Tesla, when their early model S Motors were giving a loud whine, Tesla began replacing them. They made it right. On the other hand, Nissan? They had to be sued (class action) , & owners were very dissatisfied with the measly settlement. Not much Goodwill in that.
    .
     
  9. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Nissan has been good at keeping a low profile. Tesla is a rising star, all eyes on me.
     
  10. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    EV currently has limitations. Until these limits are eliminated and the products are solid, from Nissan or Tesla people will continue to by ICE. Maybe Toyota is smart in the delay of BEV, let others pay the price before coming out with their own.
     
  11. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I see. It's not about Nissan. It's not about Prius. It's all about Tesla fandom.
     
  12. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Just like they were smart with the HFC Mirai?
     
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  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    it's not about compare / contrast? How else do peeps make choices.
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  14. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    I own a Prius Plug-In. I have owned it about four years. I have been a regular contributor on Prius Chat. There is a sub-forum on Prius Chat for Tesla. I am a Prius and Tesla fan. You have the option of visiting this sub-forum or not. Your choice.
     
  15. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    I am a Tesla fan. I am a Prius fan. I am a Leaf fan. I am a fan of just about anyone who tries to make a BEV or a good hybrid or anything else that reduces gas use for transportation. We are in the midst of growing pains for the whole thing. Despite all the downfalls here and there I am still enjoying the fact that the industry is changing towards EVs. Nissan played as important a part in that as Tesla. Tesla over-promised and under-delivered pretty much the whole way in terms of timelines. It's all good as long as progress is being made.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota also appears to be good at keeping a low profile. I haven't seen any discussion here about Lexus' leaky gas tanks.

    There is a report button at the bottom left of each post. If you feel a topic has been posted in the wrong forum, click it on the OP and let the mods know why you think it should be moved.
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Actually - if you read the op real real carefully, you will see that the topic is actually about how Nissan Leaf owners feel misled - in contrast to how owners feel regarding another ev manufacturer. You could compare against GM also I suppose, but there aren't many long range Ev's to compare & contrast against. So, yeah, the Prius doesn't even come up in that realm of discussion, yet.

    .
     
  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Nothing new.

    Nissan Juke owners are probably feeling equally misled about how much action they would get after being seen cruising around in those things. :D
     
  19. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    Is that you, Jeremy Clarkson? The Juke is a perfectly acceptable-looking car.
     
  20. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    That is painting with too broad a brush. Tesla never promised anything. At times, Elon was overly optimistic in his timelines as a result of being a novice in the auto manufacturing business. For example, he estimated that Tesla would reach 5000 model 3s produced a week in January, 2018. He missed that projection by 6 months. I'm not sure how important that is in the scheme of life. And then there are many occasions where he under projected and over delivered. For example, he projected 310 mile range on the Long Range model 3 and most owners are getting in the 330's. And then their are occasions when he has been right on schedule. For example, he projected in 2017 that the $35K base model 3 would be available sometime in 2019. The latest estimate is that the $35K car will be available in 6 months, right on schedule.

    You can always emphasize a company's glitches in production and delivery but that does not tell the whole story or give a complete picture. Yesterday, Wall Street poo-poo'd reaching 5000 per week goal with the proclamation that Elon cannot sustain that rate of build. Wall Street will just have to invent some other excuse for bashing Tesla at the end of July when Tesla sustains and perhaps even increases that rate of build. We need to be fair and balanced.