nissan looking at 150 mile epa range, implies battery costs continuing down

I am still worry about Nissan's approach to not putting in a TMS to protect their battery. At the assumed $37k price, I am willing to pay a little more from Tesla to get me the 200 miles car instead with a TMS and their faster supercharging option.

 

considering the vehicle life is significantly extended with the 150 mile option, I would just go with the single offering and offer a lease deal that matches the current lease offers (monthly) but with a higher residual value for the same mileage.

 

People say the HV battery in the Leaf costs £5,000. Add 50% extra and surely that would be £7,500 or only £2,500 for a more useable and realistic range.

So a £21,000 car with a 60/90/110 mile range becomes a £23,000 car with a 90/135/165 mile range.

 

when are they going to increase the leaf to prius size?

 

I think all manufacturers serious about the EV market are looking into 150-200 mile range for the next gen models. Otherwise, they will lose sales to Tesla's Model E like crazy and they know it. I'm sure Nissan has been developing these for a while now for the next Leaf, and I'm willing to bet Chevy has the technology but is hesitant to put it on the market (back to EV1 extinction reasons) however will be forced to for the next Volt.

 

Nissan is working on new battery chemistry with current Leaf owners in HOT places to "try" to resolve this battery capacity lost issue. No TMS solution. So one has to assume this is the way Nissan is going to go forward with their next Leaf.

 

A 150 mile Leaf, even with margin, makes a day-trip to Nashville, 115-140 miles, practical. I won't retire the 1.8L Prius but the 1.5L Prius would soon be history.

Bob Wilson

 

Prior to the first deliveries, Nissan FIRST alluded to the Leaf getting 100 miles of range ... and failed to mention that the Leaf's ADVERTISED pack was 24kWh rather than the 21 usable portion. Cold weather driving range isn't even in the 80's range, but rather the 70's. THEN, (especially in hot summer climates) you loose capacity around 30,000 miles (if you're lucky to get that far). Now Nissan wants to claim 150 miles for gen II ?!?
Great !! That means, in cold weather, after a couple years, I'll finally get that 100 miles they (covertly) said I'd get in the first place. Sorry, their standards for being unable to speak in an up front manner are history. The AZ owners played hell when their packs started loosing capacity prematurely. Not that I'm complaining (about that, and the junkie carpet, HUGE power draw from the heater, crappy Ecopia tire wear, incapable of being able to upgrade the on-board chargers as they hinted would be possible, etc) ... because when you get the first iteration ... that's the nature of things. Besides, it was the only cheep game in town.

Having driven both vehicles for 3 years or more, IMO there's not that much passenger/driver room difference. Cargo, yes.
.

 

The sweet spot is 200 miles and that's a reliable 200 miles, not just with hypermileing and in nice, warm weather. Until this happens, EVs will still be a niche product whether it's "lower" cost ones or "high end" ones like Tesla.

I'm wondering if it's going to be a race between hydrogen powered vehicles with 300 mi range and 5 min fill up and 200 mi range EVs with, what a couple of hours recharge to full range?

 

I put my money on EV.

The hydrogen game will be similar (but worse) than the CNG game. Where the hell are you going to find one? You have to drive out of your way to get the 5 minute refuel. Is that out of your way 10 minutes or 1 hr drive?

You know about the EV charging station out rage thread? Try not finding a working one. Or one with the new higher price. Or one with very low pressure that you cannot get to refuel full. See CNG threads about CNG car owners frustration.

I rather worry about range, and find my fuel in my garage than the above... just so I can refuel in 5 minutes.

 

It will not take 2 hours to re-fill a LEAF-type EV back to 200 miles starting with an empty battery. If you are referencing expensive hydrogen stations, then it is only fair to compare to Level 3 DC rapid EV chargers, if we want a fair comparison (the L3's will cost far less than the H2 stations, but that's another story).
The current LEAF uses Chademo, and this next hypothetical version may or may not have it, depending on whether Nissan bites the dust on Chademo and adopts SAE Combo.
Regardless, here are the numbers:
Chademo: 60 kw max rate, meaning current 18.9 kwh LEAF battery fills in about 25 minutes; a 200-mile LEAF would need about twice 18.9 kwh, or 38 kwh, so you are looking at a 40-45 minute fillup
SAE Combo: 100 kw max at first deployment, with possible future upgrades up to 200 kw. So, refilling a 38 kwh, 200-mile LEAF should take no more than 25 minutes initially, and possibly as little as 15 minutes if upgraded
So, if we are talking about the L3 chargers that are most likely to be along major highway routes and intersections, refilling a LEAF-class 200-mile EV is 15 minutes at fastest and 45 minutes at slowest. This is much better than 2 hours
Oh, one thing - I am assuming the 150-200 mile LEAF battery would weigh about the same as the one in the current LEAF. That may be a tad optimistic, but they might be able to cut weight elsewhere or increase drivetrain efficiency in order to make up for the extra weight of the more powerful batteries.

 

Sales can double several times and still be selling into all the niches. If an EV capable of "going mainstream" was technically available and at a low cost the infrastructure needed to build them wouldn't be in place.

Mike

 

According to some folks at Nissan - the existing Leaf already gets 200km range. See vidio at 2:28:
Nissan Unveils Electric Car to Contest Le Mans: Video - Bloomberg
The people to say this crap ... do they think we can't remember this stuf? - it's not that Leaf owners can't live with the spec's that they discover to be "real". But the crap that Nissan puts out as real . . . it's pure exasperation - and gives the impression that Nissan is no better than GM spin doctors. Is it any wonder that owners don't believe 150 miles claims will truly be 150 miles?
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It's been a couple of years since I've sat in a Leaf but I don't recall it being smaller so I just checked and it's about the same size as your car (2 cu.ft. less interior but 2 cu.ft. bigger hatch): Compare Side-by-Side

 

thanks, interesting to hills #11 post.