No means no.

No sudden rise in brutal retaliation. It's been going on since the beginning of time, but now we have multiple 24 hour a day news channels desperate to fill air time.

Tom

 

I agree with qbee.

Some people take rejection very seriously... I guess he was very insecure about himself as well. Most people go in to depression, cry their eyes out, or go in to therapy. Some commit suicide or murder.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Mar 25 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]412016[/snapback]</div>

I think that it's more that we live in a world of instant gratification and getting what we want when we want. In the instance of wanting a female, there's a little problem in that the female must want the man back. For a growing population there is going to be growing statistical group of males with poor frontal lobe control. Thus when this group doesn't get what it wants instantly, you get these car wreck scenarios.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Mar 25 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]412024[/snapback]</div>

I'm inclined to agree with Tom.

Except that not so long ago a woman was the property of her husband, and had little or no say in who her husband was, and had no right to leave him. Wife-beating was common, and legal, and was not news.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Mar 25 2007, 08:01 PM) [snapback]412093[/snapback]</div>

I don't think there is an easy answer. But I think it has to do with the systemic violence of our society. Children are indoctrinated by TV and movies to believe that violence is the only way to respond to people who threaten you. From Star Trek (the original series) where there's always a diplomat who makes everything worse by trying to negotiate with the bad guys, and the moral is that the only way to respond is to blow them to smithereens; to war movies where the "other" side is always portrayed as pure evil; to the present political climate where, instead of trying to understand the real reasons behind conflict, we are told over and over that our "enemies" are evil people who only delight in killing.

Everything in our culture is about killing the bad guys. Even our sports are allegories of war, in which victory through brute force is the ultimate aim.

Add to that our me-first consumerist culture which barrages us from earliest childhood with advertising scientifically designed to make people want everything and want it now, and our drug culture of instant gratification (alcohol, tobacco, pills to sleep, pills to wake up, pills for pain, pills for depression).

And finally, add to all the above a society in which people are isolated, without an emotional or financial support network, where the old dream of advancement has been supplanted by a growing service economy where 2 or 3 jobs are needed just to meet the bare necessities, and forget about health care unless you have a union job or you're in the upper-middle class.

The answer lies in a complete reorganization of society into a place where, as Peter Maurin (co-founder of the Catholic Worker Movement) said: "It becomes easy to do good," and where people help each other instead of fearing each other. You can read books by and about Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin to see how they believed we could move in this direction. But it ain't gonna happen overnight. It's a long, arduous process of societal transformation: "Building a new society within the shell of the old."

As long as we teach kids that its necessary to kill the enemies of our nation, they'll grow up into adults who believe its acceptable to abuse people who they feel they have a complaint against. And it's a good bet that every one of those guys you are so upset about, believes in his heart that he has been wronged by the woman he beats up or kills. And "law enforcement" won't help, because a person enraged by passion never thinks of the consequences of his action.

Domestic violence is nothing more or less than the reflection of national violence. The beaten or murdered woman has paid the price of a society bent on military adventurism, which has characterized our nation since the first Europeans set foot on these shores.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 25 2007, 09:14 PM) [snapback]412134[/snapback]</div>

I couldn't agree more, Daniel. Look at any Hollywood film made since, oh, 1930. I'll bet more than 2/3 of that enormous cinematic library all have exactly the same denoument and/or ending: an heroic pistol shot puts away the villain. Try to name a movie that DOESN'T - it's a challenge!

This nation has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 population by a factor of, what was it, NINE times greater than the next worst non-3rd world nation?

And in the pro death penalty arguments, look at their emotional intensity: you can SEE the proponents salivating at the prospect. It's one thing to favor euthanasia; entirely another to LOOK FORWARD to it's being ruthlessly applied.

I don't know why our culture is the way it is; perhaps the fact that we are the greatest immigrant nation has something to do with it. On one hand, the personality type that makes an immigrant is one willing to take risks, to seize opportunity. But on the other hand, an immigrant has given up on bettering his circumstances at home - is essentially running away from a problem toward an "easy" fix rather than confronting it. And resorting to violence is certainly "easier" than working toward mutual understanding. Just a theory off the top of my head, anyway. Regardless, the facts are brutal and stark: for whatever reasons, we ARE a violent culture.

Your essay was very articulately stated, and, I believe, "deadly" accurate.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

Women are more pyscho than men when it comes to getting dumped.

True story.

 

says who? i won't tell you what happened when mom left her (then boyfriend, now husband)

i've dumped my share of nutjobs. stories from both sides of the story are abundant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Mar 25 2007, 07:01 PM) [snapback]412093[/snapback]</div>

Well, men are something like 17 times more likely to be murdered than women, so you can take some comfort in that, I suppose. We simply notice women's murders more because it seems more brutal for a man to kill a woman than it does for man to kill a man. The good news is that the murder rate, and the spousal abuse rates, are at historic lows.

What can we do? Women can do more to protect themselves; most are killed by "someone they know" and often drugs or alcohol is involved. Teaching women how to spot the good guys could be reinstated. Here are some hints:

That "dangerous guy" that seems so exciting really IS dangerous, and dying isn't exciting after all.

Guys with criminal records are a bad bet.

Guys who can't keep jobs are a bad bet.

Look how the guy treats his sister, mother and ex-girlfriends, and animals. Anti social behavior often exhibits itself with cruelty to women and animals.

A guy who does drugs is a bad bet. He deserves to be alone and lonely.

A guy who gets drunk is a bad bet. He also deserves to be alone and lonely.

A guy who can't control his emotions and avoid anger is a bad bet. Let him be angry by himself.

A guy from a broken home, especially if he lived only with his mother and never knew his father, is much more likely to be violent. If any of the other danger signs are present, run away as fast as you can. If he's kind to other women in his life, doesn't drink to excess or use drugs, hasn't fathered children out of wedlock, and has had relatively few sexual partners, he might be worth a look. But be careful; the absence of a father growing up is the single biggest predictor of violent behavior.

We are already incarcerating and executing far more perps than any other nation, and our crime rates have been going down. But women can do much to ensure their safety by being more selective about the people they get into relationships with.

The 17 men victims for every woman victim aren't so lucky; we're far more likely to be killed by someone we don't know, in a random manner, than women are. Still, there's a list of those rules for us too ... don't flash money around, don't walk at night in neighborhoods you don't know, don't frequent bars or strip clubs, etc.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Mar 27 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]412793[/snapback]</div>

HEY!!! I resent that!

 

Forward HO! I say we continue to kick God, morality, and common sense out of the schools and the public square and only stick with the "Anyone is allowed to do anything that they want" plan.

We don't want to infringe on peoples rights to play the violent games, watch all the killing, brutality and gore on tv and the movies as they want and let's be sure to never restrict anything that's available on the internet.

I'm sure it's just a fluke that all that crap is available and that people absorb it 24/7 and most people don't step over the line and do something totally brutal... only a few do...

Those few are not responsible for their actions, they were 'insane' or they only did it because of all the crap they spent the last 20 years absorbing from the media... it wasn't their fault... We should talk softly to the rapist/murderer so he doesn't get his feelings hurt. He's a victim too, have compassion.

So what, it's a little shift in society toward brutal killings... What's wrong with that?

I say "Let the killers be free!!" It would be cruel to execute any of them for their crimes. Killing one more person doesn't bring back that innocent 9 year old rape/murder victim. She only spent 2 weeks being brutalized before the life ebbed out of her and we can't help that situation by executing the guy who did it to her.

Who am I to judge their lifestyle... Who am I to say that killing is wrong?

Liberal Agenda MARCH ON, and don't be so 'judgemental'.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Mar 25 2007, 10:01 PM) [snapback]412093[/snapback]</div>

It has to start when they're boys. The presence of a strong male presence providing guidance and education is where it has to start. Of course that male -- be it a father, teacher, coach, etc. -- has to have a level enough head. Even if a boy's dad "only" verbally abuses his mom, that boy will grow up learning that it's acceptable to abuse women.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Mar 27 2007, 02:36 AM) [snapback]412793[/snapback]</div>

And this is where a strong female presence (mother, teacher, coach, etc) comes in. There has to be someone in a girl's life who has actually lived her life following the rules you laid out. The rules are good, but if you have a girl who feels worthless, she's not going to have the tools to follow those guidelines. In order to have those tools, she has to have a way to learn those tools.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Mar 27 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]412893[/snapback]</div>

exactly!

women who grew up in abusive situations are FAR more likely to end up in one themselves down the line. why? many reasons. because their mothers never took a stand. they never learned that they are worth more than that. they never learned what a "normal" relationship is like anyway, so such a low standard becomes acceptable.

it's a self-perpetuating problem.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Mar 27 2007, 03:36 AM) [snapback]412793[/snapback]</div>

Sorry. I need proof of this.

I would say that the biggest predictor of violent behavior in men is having a violent father, not the absence of one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 27 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]412902[/snapback]</div>

Well said! I think this is something that a lot of people are ignorant (and some willfully so) of. It's very easy to say "why would she put up with that? Why doesn't she just leave?". Because she actually can't, that's why.

Also, sometimes when women who grew up in a bad situation meet a nice guy, they expect to be mistreated. And when they don't get mistreated, they might behave in a way to either prompt mistreatment or cause the guy to leave. They don't get that someone could love them for who they are.

That's a hard concept for some to understand, but it really is the case. I saw it with my sister. I think, now that she's 41 and has 4 kids by 3 different men, she's finally starting to understand it. It's been really painful to watch.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 27 2007, 10:47 AM) [snapback]412888[/snapback]</div>

Your sarcasm is duly noted.

My liberal agenda includes keeping common sense in the schools, and a certain level of morality, too. Just depends on whose morality you're talking about. However, God doesn't equal morality.

And I do have a problem with some of the more violent video games. My son's rights to play them will be not just limited, but not allowed in MY house. We'll talk about the whys when the time comes.

Funny, it sounds like you're promoting censorship. You sound like a Democrat to me! So you supported Tipper Gore back in the 80s? Watch out--your brethren at least on FHOP will kick you out of the club!

 

The greatest risk factor for adult violence is child abuse, and unwanted children are abused most. Abortion prevents unwanted children and thus reduces adult violence.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Mar 27 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]412949[/snapback]</div>

See, that's what I thought, too; not single parenting.