Noisemaker nonsense again

Japan is the only country with a higher population of Prius than the USA. We can find no evidence of a safety hazard with the more than 500,000 Prius sold here. I've attempted to get Japanese accident data without success. So all we can hope for is perhaps our friends in Japan will be successful in throwing some light on this effort.

I would offer one observation that many of these efforts seem to get 'automotive' support from less successful manufacturer. Now it may have been accidental but the photo is of a Honda hybrid and the Google ad insert was to the Honda web site. Probably just a coincidence ... yeap, just a Honda coincidence.

BTW, posting here is a bit like 'preaching to the choir' and I notice that web site supports user comments. The right place to post is to the original source and then those sites that "echo" this nonsense. Address the editor and ask them to check the facts and data. For example, this is what I posted there:

Bob Wilson

 

during my testimony before congress i forgot to mention that the prius has a horn!!! it does? oh, so you can signal blind folks, drunks, fools and children that they are walking into you. imagine that,
fred from nashville

 

I'm up for my car emitting a radio frequency that can be received to a warning device for blind people short range- put a noise maker on my car and I'll be removing it quite promptly. Kids will learn to adapt just the same way they can use a computer.

 

How about a strong microwave field. If a pedestrian suddenly feels hot, they will know to look for a Prius.

Tom

 

Ummm... Women of a certain age will not notice

 

I don't know exactly how I feel about this. While I understand that Prius owners seem to take some enjoyment or satisfaction from the quiet operation of their vehicles, especially in EV mode, I can't in all honesty say that the idea that The Prius is in many situations is quieter than the average car isn't a reality. Can I then speculate that in a certain situation, such as a neighborhood side street, driveway that children and/or people, blind or otherwise, that are "programmed" to hear a regular gasoline combustion engine, might not hear the silent running of a Prius? Hard for me to discount this reality even if I think it inmaterial. That's why the idea of a noisemaker continues to be raised.

What bothers me is that it seems to be another move away from personal responsibility. In my neighborhood, residential urban, there are several painted pedestrian crosswalks. These are Non-Traffic light, simply painted zones for pedestrians to cross. The concept being that if as a driver, you see a Pedestrian about to cross or crossing, you respect the crosswalk and of course allow the pedestrian to cross. ....I hate them.

Too many "Pedestrians" loiter in the entrance. Sometimes crossing, or sometimes just hanging out on the corner. I've stopped several times, only to have the person look at me askance and motion me to continue because evidently they just wanted to stand in the entrance.

Or the converse is true, I've been driving my 3000lb auto at 20 miles per hour, the posted speed, and I'll be right up on an empty crosswalk, only to have someone suddenly charge out into the crosswalk with indignant impunity. I either slam on my brakes or zoom pass them...either action resulting in dirty looks from the pedestrian who evidently has no concept of physics and the reality of stopping distance or time.

The worst is the crosswalk and the two way street. How many times have I stopped only to see the pedestrian start to walk out into the cross walk while I watch the approaching car coming in the opposite direction obviously not slowing down or deciding to stop. I am now the front row spectator to what might be a horrible tragedy, initiated because I stopped, the pedestrian continued but the other car doesn't see or care. So far before I have to make a 911 call, either the driver or pedestrian has figured out what is happening and avoided disaster. But there have been some very close calls.

Okay, this has turned into mostly an Off Topic rant. But it really isn't. Because my point is that we build or expect these semi-safeguards. That IMO often make things actually less safe.

Is it safer, if people actually don't have the supposed safety of a crosswalk and are simply alert to the traffic and approaching cars? Often times I think so.

Would it be safer, for parents simply to tell Children to be on guard for automobiles wherever they might be, and explain that some are loud, but some are very quiet, so they need to look and be aware, ALWAYS.

No, we want the semi-safeguard. The noisemaker, the crosswalk. And I'm not convinced that it doesn't create a situation where people don't take responsibilty or want to take responsibilty.

In England, In London, mostly for tourists, they paint at most crosswalks an arrow and the instructions to look for traffic approaching from the opposite direction. Because American tourists are so programmed to look the other way, that it is very easy for them to forget, look the wrong way and step right out infront of a car. My feeling is it's nice, and probably has saved lives. But who is responsible? As a Tourist, if the warning did not exist, it's still my responsibilty to be alert and understand I'm in an enviroment where people drive on the opposite side of the road compared to what I'm use to seeing. If I did look the wrong way and step infront of a car, it would still be my fault.

It's hard really to fault the concept behind a noisemaker, or a crosswalk, or a warning painted on the ground to look the opposite way. But at some point don't we need to simply take responsibilty for our own safety as pedestrians or drivers? The world is a dynamic place everything can be dangerous and comes with a level of risk. We fool ourselves into thinking we can make it perfectly safe, and sometimes that in of itself becomes one of the greatest dangers.

Thanks for letting me rant...and please don't charge into a crosswalk and/or loiter in the entrance if you aren't going to cross.

 

That happens when you stealth in a Prius.

Tom

 

is it also true that prius tires make no noise as opposed to the average car?

 

Anytime this issue comes up it annoys the heck out of me. I don't care if this is not PC but the Prius (or any other hybrid) should NOT have any type of noisemaker installed for the benefit of the blind. What about deaf people? Yes they can see, but they're more at risk than others if they're not looking properly! What about bicycles which can travel upwards of 25-30mph. Are we going to put noisemakers on those too? I did when I was a kid. Used to attach a playing card with a clothes pin to the rear wheel. Here is a simple remedy. All hybrids will emit a signal that will emit a sound ONLY when a blind person with a special receiver is within fifty feet of the vehicle. So you see, we're going to constantly be transmitting a signal that will create a loud sound ONLY if the blind person has their receiver on and is fifty feet away. Got it?

 

what was it? 1905 or so where a person with a red flag was to precede a motor car so as not to startle folks. may we should do that. its so nostalgic and it wont feel like another freedom being taken away.
fred from nashville

 

I cant remember - pretty sure my grand parents were eggs at that point.

 

What? Tires is tires bub. Ever hear some of these Acords, Camrys, Civics coasting around town, those things are at the same noise level as a coasting Prius as they approach. And I swear, the last time a new 2009 Yaris went buy me, it was quieter than a Prius approaching.

 

i still think my car is rather noisy.. i kept thinking it's the inverter pump but it's not.. it's the electronic motor that controls the throttle valve.. it hums... i can hear that hum from probably 100 yards away. i can't say that for most cars.

 

This is a difficult issue for me personally. Of course I don't like the idea of a noise maker attached to a vehicle. I certainly wouldn't want one attached to mine. That's why in my original reply I tried to approach the topic as a "personal responsibilty" issue.

Having said all that, and I do believe it, I'd say it seems some people are too defensive. The fact that there are deaf people, blind people and other moving objects that may or may not be as silent as a Prius doesn't change the fact that I don't feel it unreasonable to believe that perhaps if The Prius did have a auditory safety "sound" that it emitted, it might aide blind pedestrians in knowing the Prius was present.

Listen, I'm with you Prius Owners. But objectively what I hear, is when we aren't talking about the silence of The Prius in relationship to blind pedestrians or children and potential safety, then the silence is "golden". How many comments and threads contain glowing reviews of the silent operation of EV mode? It's even marketed as a plus of the mode. So you can sneak off to work in the morning without waking your neighbors...

But when someone says...It's too silent and poses a risk to blind people or potentially children...then suddenly it's "Leave Us Alone! The Prius isn't too silent, The World is too loud!" or "What about Deaf People!"

I do NOT want to "bell the Prius", my contention is that in a dynamic modern world, there is a level of personal responsibility for safety we should all take on, whether we are sighted, blind, or deaf. Whether we are driver or pedestrian. So that is the bottom line for me.

However, lets speculate that with a steady increase in alternative automobiles existence, either Hybrid or Full Electric. Could we accept that the virtual silence of operation COULD be an issue for a blind person? Who are we to say no? Right now the numbers seem to support that The Prius is no bigger risk than any other automobile. But what if that changes in time? What if the incidences of Pedestrian vs. Silent EV auto injuries increase? At what point if any do we say, perhaps auditory warning is not only possible but ethical and necessary?

I'm not sitting on the fence on this, but I find some responses almost unfairly defensive. To me the best argument against Noismakers for The Prius isn't to find exceptions to the rules, or point out other handicaps that inwhich auditory aides would make no difference. The best approach is simply to be honest. Yes, The Prius can operate and move in a manner that makes it quieter than "most" vehicles on the road. Silent operation is an advantage most owners want to maintain. Therefore it is important that as a Prius driver you ever be concious of the fact that those around you, may not hear you, may not see you. Drive to increase the safety of those around you in those incidences.

The best defense against an auditory noisemaker is to point out that The Prius is equipped with clear windshields, horns, brakes and hopefully attentive and competent drivers who realize that there automobile is "different" and utilize the before mentioned tools to keep the environment around themselves as safe as possible for everyone.

 

Hi Electric...,

But all these vehicles have tires. And tires ARE the noisemakers, already on the cars. Your falling for the arguement that the Prius is silent. Which of course it most certainly is not. It has all sorts of burps, and beeps, and chirps besides the tire noise. Ever been behind a Prius backing up when the brakes are hit? Pretty loud those rear brake shoes being operated.

There is no difference in noise from an approaching Accord, to an aproaching Prius. Go out on the street and listen carefully. And the NTSHA data bears out this anectdotal observation - the Prius is just not killing people at any kind of strangely high rate. And indeed its not killing blind people at all, to date.

This is not defensiveness - its reality.

As far as backup beepers, I got no problem with that. Indeed, a retrofit mandate on ALL SUV's and Pickups of reversing beepers and rear view cameras is supported by the NTSHA data - and I would favor that, too.