Non-hybrid cars that give Good Fuel Economy (highway)

Those are EPA rated numbers? AFAIR, with warmed up engine, on level ground, at 50 mph or so. Prius will give you 60 mpg in these conditions.

- Alex

 

And yet Prius drivers on Fuelly aren't quite reaching the 50mpg combined.

For an all around family car, it is hard to beat the Prius. Not everybody wants or needs such a car. It is great that other choices are now available, and sometimes it is hard to argue the price difference for those on a budget.

 

I refuse to compare diesel and gasoline MPGs directly because neither their prices nor their carbon contents match. Some adjustment is required.

The nearest fuel station is pricing diesel 21% higher than gasoline this morning. But this gap varies and seems wider than normal now, and I don't have a good reference for the average price spread over time.

Carbon is a bit easier. Several EPA and EIA sources show diesel as containing 14.0 to 14.8% more carbon than the EO (non-ethanol) gas. Compared to the more common E10 gasoline, diesel's fossil carbon ratio jumps to 26.6%. The difference is biofuel carbon, which by international agreement is not counted towards tailpipe emissions. But some will quibble about the accounting for the fossil fuel used to produce that biofuel.

So, depending on which adjustment yardstick is applied, that 46 MPG-diesel is equivalent to somewhere in the range of just 36 to 40 MPG-gasoline.

 

Diesel engines have other problems to at least for me , below zero starting is also a problem, plus I still don't like the obnoxious smell, carbon footprint or not!

 

We shouldn't hold the faults of the old diesels against the new ones. Old gasoline engines also had obnoxious exhaust, and I now believe their CO output contributed significantly to my childhood car sickness.

 

Could always convert the diesel number to mpge. The model entry on Fueleconomy.gov has a cost to go 25 miles line. It can be customized with local and up to date fuel prices. The cost per mile between diesel and gasoline equipped model tend to be close.

Diesel demand competes with heating oil during the winter, and it has been cold in the North East where oil heat is common. We should be expanding natural gas pipelines to make it easier for homes to switch off of heating oil and coal.

And we can quibble about biodiesel blends, carbon emissions from refining, and the increased hydrocarbon emissions of gasoline. Burning either isn't good for the environment. Many that choose diesel likely wouldn't choose or couldn't find a hybrid or high mpg gasoline vehicle for their needs, and the diesel more than likely reduces their consumption compared to the gasoline choices available.

Compared to the fleet average, that is still damn good.

Starting is much better with new diesels. Regular below zero starting without plug in heaters is generally bad for either engine and batteries.

I grabbed some ULSD for my heating system one winter. It had known of the diesel smell I remember from the past, and I spilled about a cup of it filling the tank. I'm sure the cold helped in keeping fumes and odors down, but when we would get a delivery of heating oil, you could smell it in the house.

 

+1
And there are more modders defeating emission systems on gas cars than on diesels. They just aren't as easy to spot.

 

I have been watching this guy (the OP Troy Heagy) since he's been on here because I was forewarned about him causing trouble on other sites. I def see a pattern with his posts. He ALWAYS tries to put the most negative spin on the Prius as possible. First of all, he didn't list the cost of the BMW 328, the MB E250d or any other car price that didn't fit into his argument against the Prius. He consistently talks about the "high" price of the Prius compared to non hybrid cars. Then he will only list the hwy mileage of those cars and the Prius (or don't mention the Prius mileage at all). So, in fairness and "truth" in reporting, I thought I'd clear the air and let you know, "the other side of the story".

If these are my choices, I will take a Prius all day long... Now, lets compare the same cars to the Prius for "City" mileage and "combined"

51/50 Prius
53/50 Prius C
26/33 Cruze D
32/37 Ford Fiesta SFE
32/37 BMW 328d
28/34 Mercedes-Benz E250d
37/40 Mitsubishi Mirage
30/34 VW Jetta/Gulf/
28/32 Beetle
31/35 Passat TDI

28/33 Chevrolet Cruze Eco,
30/35 Toyota Corolla Eco
30/34 Mazda3,
29/33 Chevrolet Sonic
28/32 Dodge Dart Aero
28/33 Ford Focus SFE
31/35 Nissan Versa
30/34 Sentra
28/35 Mazda6
31/34 Fiat 500 (requires Premium gas)

In my town, my observations tell me that diesel varies from 40-80 cents more expensive per gallon.

This chart clearly spells out the advantage that the Prius gives you. Nothing can touch it. The closest combined rating to the Prius is the Mitsubishi Mirage (which is not a comparable car at all).

What I can't understand is why the OP would even buy another car? With your super fantabulous lifetime mpg of 89 on your Honda Insight and a 70 lifetime mpg on your Civic Hybrid, why you would ever want another car?

 

Its also worth noting that, at least according to Consumer Reports numbers, the Prius C is significantly cheaper to own and operate over time than any of the vehicles on this list.

8 Year Estimated Total Owner Costs (Depreciation, Sales Taxes, Interest, Insurance, Fuel, Maintenance and Repairs)
Toyota Prius C - $34,750
Toyota Prius IV - $39,500
Nissan Versa - $40,000
Mitsubishi Mirage - $40,250
Toyota Corolla: $41,000
Ford Fiesta SES Hatch - $41,500
Chevy Sonic - $42,500
Fiat 500 - $42,750
Mazda 3 - $43,250
VW Golf TDI - $43,250
VW Jetta TDI - $44,000
Dodge Dart SXT: $47,500
Ford Focus Hatch: $47,500
Chevy Cruze Diesel - $48,250
Chevy Cruze Eco - $50,500
Mercedes E250d - $88,000

More numbers here:
Ownership Costs | PriusChat

 

TH tends to troll, but I give him credit this time: he was explicit in stating that this is a highway only MPG comparo.

So far, fine. But then his reasoning fails when he concludes that *for him*, a non-hybrid is a better choice because it saves him money. He does not try to compare similar cars, miles per month or lifetime costs. Does he really ignore safety and reliability ? Can he rationalize the choice ? Can he monetize the choice ?

Now I know that the overriding fraction of Merkins cannot calculate past the $ sticker on the car, but these analyses have been done for TH multiple times over the years he has posted on PC. He ignores them, making him either really, really stupid, a troll, or some of both. I vote for the latter.

 

Not everybody wants or needs a Volt either.

DBCassidy

 

Which U.S.-market diesels are more efficient than Prius?

 

What Prius model can tow more than a ton? Or at all?
Heck, despite being larger and having more space, it can't carry much more weight than a Sonic.

Not every one wants a Prius. So it is a good thing there are more fuel efficient options available no matter what they burn or not.

 

No idea, but what does that have to do with efficiency ? As in, energy/mile.