NYC Bans Trans Fats From Eateries

Just don't eat in that kind of restaurant. I can guarantee you that whatever they come up with to use instead will be just as unhealthy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Dec 5 2006, 07:30 PM) [snapback]358271[/snapback]</div>

I wish they'd just make everyone pay the full cost for their own healthcare.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Dec 6 2006, 07:36 AM) [snapback]358418[/snapback]</div>

I respectfully disagree, Evan.

I ate meat for the first 19 years of my life. I loved the taste of it and didn't think I could exist without meat.

Then I became a strict ovo-lacto-vegetarian. It took about a year to overcome my craving for meat, and after another year meat began to disgust me. Meanwhile, vegetables, which I had never liked, became more and more tasty. A couple of years later I discovered tofu, which I did not care for at first, but then I learned how to cook it, and it too became very tasty.

As a person who has lived as a carnivore and as a vegetarian, I can tell you from personal experience that all taste in food is acquired habit.

I get just as much pleasure out of eating a well-prepared vegetarian meal as I ever got out of a meal of meat.

There are people who refuse to try other foods than those they are familiar with because they think they can only enjoy what they are in the habit of eating. But in fact, anyone who wishes to enjoy better health can choose to begin eating a healthy diet, and before too much longer they will be getting exactly the same pleasure from the new food as they ever did from their old food. All taste in food is subjective. Eat whatever you choose to eat. But you are fooling yourself if you think that there is more objective good taste in cream, butter, red meat, or cheese than in tofu, beans, pure water, and fresh green vegetables. It's just a matter of what you choose to accustom yourself to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Dec 6 2006, 10:19 AM) [snapback]358506[/snapback]</div>

The problem is yours, when you decide to place labels on people, and then expect them to conform to your arbitrary definitions of what those labels are supposed to mean. You might call me a liberal because I support social justice and higher wages for workers; but then you are confused when I oppose multi-national corporations "right" to dump nasty chemicals into our food in order to increase their profit. Yet from my point of view, these positions are entirely consistent.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Dec 6 2006, 10:19 AM) [snapback]358506[/snapback]</div>

Americans pay less tax, but complain about it more loudly, than any other industrialized country.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Dec 6 2006, 02:16 PM) [snapback]358554[/snapback]</div>

"The Food and Drug Administration has declared that the only acceptable amount of trans fats in our diets is zero"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Dec 6 2006, 02:46 AM) [snapback]358346[/snapback]</div>

I think this will be overturned in court. I also agree with you in terms of making people share their fair cost of their own healthcare. I also think there should be no employer withholding of taxes - make each and every individual send the government a check with each and every paycheck.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Dec 5 2006, 10:48 PM) [snapback]358308[/snapback]</div>

What is a BRC burrito?


Peace --

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 6 2006, 06:40 AM) [snapback]358362[/snapback]</div>

Oddly enough, i think i agree with doberman, in part... a law such as this isn't really proper - you choose to eat stuff cooked with trans fat, and you're the one who is injured by it. Now, i can see then requiring a warning for foods cooked with trans fat, so the public is aware... however if i choose to eat it (which i wouldn't, but i nkow some people who wouldn't care, unfortunately), then i should be allowed to. This isn't like smoking, where it's been proven that second hand smoke is hazardous to your health - there's no second hand trans fat (at least, none that i want to think about... gross). And the whole smoking thing is still very controversial, with only a small number of areas banning it in public places like restaurants and bars.

As for the rest of what Doberman said...

Healthcare: I don't know about the rest of you, but a sizable chunk of what i pay in benefits from every pay check goes towards my health care plan, which is essentially an insurance policy against the day when i may need expensive treatment. There's a whole industry built around providing this form of insurance to people, and i don't see why we should do away with it and force the individuals to foot the bill themselves. The way i see it, a majority of people already foot their fair share of the bill through their monthly payments to their plan providers. Now, if you're just talking about going after the freeloaders, i might be able to see your point, but i would still have some debate about that.

Taxes: Why force everyone to write regular checks to the government? I have enough bills to pay already, and wouldn't want another one. The only reason you'd want everyone to write their own checks would be to increase government and IRS jobs (go big government go) and to make sure that everyone understands exactly how much they're being reamed by the government every paycheck. Seems like you almost want people to insist that they pay less taxes (which means a smaller government), yet at the same time increase governmental jobs, which is completely contradictory. Rather than insist that everyone should write the government their own checks, why not insist on overhauling the tax code and replacing it with something simpler and more even across all classes?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Dec 6 2006, 09:24 AM) [snapback]358386[/snapback]</div>

You can have the individual pay the govt electronically.

but, in the vein of agreeing with someone who thought it impossible to do so with....

REWRITE THE TAX CODE - one of the reasons I voted conservative years ago was their promise to do so. A simple FLAT tax would be cool - but almost anything is better than what we have today.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 6 2006, 04:40 AM) [snapback]358362[/snapback]</div>

I think the reason withholding was begun was to reduce tax evasion: It's a lot harder to go after a couple of hundred million wage-earners than to get businesses to send in their taxes for them.

The reason for a progressive tax is the idea that wealthy people benefit more from the economic system and should pay, and can afford to pay, a higher percentage of their income. However, with the top marginal rate around 35% or so, the present system is fairly flat already.

The problem is there are too many loopholes, exceptions, and deductions. When the government uses the tax code to promote "desired" types of economic activity, it hides the cost of those policies. Rather than further flattening the tax, we need to eliminate deductions and loopholes. That would allow the tax rates to be lower. Then by directly supporting "desired" types of activities, we could have a clear accounting of the cost of those policies.

As for the subject of this thread: I see nothing wrong with banning poison from food served in restaurants. Trans fats are poison. They directly cause heart disease. The only problem with the law is that it bans only one poison, out of the hundreds which are put in our food by industry. You know your food is killing you when you cannot pronounce half the ingredients.

 

This reminds me of the GM-bashing discussions.

Even if the facts indicate that Ford or DCX actually have more gas guzzlers, GM markets as if they only sell trucks and SUVs. They make green gestures, then go back to the crass Hummer commercials.

As much as loath GM for pushing gas guzzlers on us, they are responding to public demand. The problem is at least half of the general American public insists on driving vehicles that get no better than 20mpg. It may be changing, but it will take time...

Back to the thread topic, you have the chicken or the egg dillemma. Restaurants are adding more salt, sugar, butter, anything that tastes better to improve business (probably to the detriment of your health). They are responding to consumer demand. We may not like to say it, but we are getting what we ask for. If the public swore off beef hamburgers, you bet the burger chains would come up with alternatives in chicken, turkey, soybean, etc....

Any of you that lived in the 1950's or have family that talks about it will recall Cokes were 8oz. - now they start in 12oz cans, with 16 and 20oz bottles not uncommon. Portions have been growing.

I find myself doing the Dr. Jeykyl - Mr. Hyde number. Sometimes I'll go to Subway or Chinese and eat sensibly - other times I'll get soft and induldge.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Dec 6 2006, 09:20 AM) [snapback]358409[/snapback]</div>

You sound like me... 29 days out of the month, i'll eat at home, cooking (more or less) healthy foods. that other day (or two ) i'll grab a nice, greasy hamburger with french fries and some kind of dairy desert (ice cream, mcFlurry, or Frosty) from a fast food joint... it always tastes so good when i'm eating it... but 10 minutes later, the eating is done... and the next day, i'm asking myself why i ever did that...

 

Induldging no more than once a week can be OK, but more than that is a self-control problem

 

"One of the greatest pleasures in life is enjoying food that tastes good"

Personally, I think fast food tastes like crap. As for real cheese (not processed), butter, high quality meats, of course! But they are not to be found anywhere near a fast food outlet.

As I said previously, the key to delicious food is freshness, whether in vegetables, meat, coffee, anything. Fast food is so industrialized and processed that I hesitate to call it real food. It is more like a snack, like a bag of chips.

The food even in expensive restaurants is hardly ever fresh. For fresh food, you have to find the right grocery store (helps to be in a big city) and prepare the food yourself, from scratch. It is a lot of work, but at the end you get food worth eating. And when it tastes that good, you don't need large portions at all.

 

I should have made my last remark in context of a weight reduction diet. Lost 30 pounds, would like to lose about 20 more.