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OEM tires- Unsafe with tread remaining

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Ray Moore, Apr 21, 2005.

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  1. Ray Moore

    Ray Moore Active Member

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    I now have 30,000 miles on my tires. I have used 42/40 psi since the car was new. I have only rotated the tires once. The wear on the tires is even across all four tires. The tread depth still shows alot of life left in the tires. The problem is that on the outside edges of the tires are grooves that channel water away from the tires in the rain. These grooves are shallower than the main treads of the tires. At this point in the tires life, these shallower rain channelling grooves are mostly gone. In the rain, these tires will no longer perform as designed. If I had run the specified pressure of 35/30, I'm sure that the outside of the tires would have worn down even faster. I was really hoping to get another 20,000 miles out of these, but I think I need to start reading those tire threads again and get some new rubber on the road. This design seems wasteful, since it cuts the safe usable life of the tires almost in half. It doesn't seem like a good use of our resources.
     
    #1 Ray Moore, Apr 21, 2005
  2. seasalsa

    seasalsa Active Member

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    Sounds like a good reason to follow Toyota's recommendation to rotate tires at every oil change.
     
    #2 seasalsa, Apr 21, 2005
  3. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    Ray the tires stock and new are marginal in the rain. I don't know how much rain you get in the hill country but we get on average about 6 feet of the stuff per year and the stock tires are marginal at best and sometimes just down right dangerous. I'll look at the design tomorrow in the daylight and see if it's something that you could have re-groved or not or if it would help at all. Every tire design has good and bad points to the design. I junked the tires on my Tundra because they were p**s useless in a moderate rain on pavement. Went to Michilen's and it was like day and night.
     
    #3 Frank Hudon, Apr 22, 2005
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Hmm, are the Integritys really that bad? Aren't they the same one as those on the 03-05 Corolla? (Some early 03s came with Uniroyal Tiger Paw). How come I didn't see any complaints when I browsed the Corolla forums. Hmm.... tis strange.
     
    #4 Tideland Prius, Apr 22, 2005
  5. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    I personally think the 2k4 Prius tires are not very good wet road preformers. As the TRAC is always kicking in on wet roads and the wife always complains about them. As soon as they are done, Hydroedge's here we come. Maybe sooner. I truly wish the TRAC was a little less agressive as both of us have almost been hit on the account of it cutting in at the most inapproiate times on wet roads while joining into the flow of traffic. I partly blame the tires for this but part rests on the TRAC.
     
    #5 Frank Hudon, Apr 22, 2005
  6. rick57

    rick57 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore\";p=\"83304)</div>
    Rotation only once? I would have at least done it every 10k, if not at every oil change. Maybe that would have helped.Rotation is supposed to keep the tires wearing evenly since the front and rear suspension is of a different configuration. At least you kept an eye on tire PSI, :wink:
     
    #6 rick57, Apr 22, 2005
  7. Ray Moore

    Ray Moore Active Member

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    Rick and Seasalsa-
    The wear is even across all four tires. I knew that some would think that that was the issue, so I was careful to include it in my post. The issue with these tires is in the design. The rain grooves are not deep enough to last the life of the tire. Look at the tires on your Prius and you will see what I mean. The guy that fixed my flat pointed it out to me and said it is common to many tire designs. This is why tires slowly beecome less sure footed in the rain over time. This is not an uneven tire wear issue.

    On the issue of tire rotation, this is my rationale. Rotation costs at least 15$ each time you do it. These tires cost 200$ per set. Disregarding the rain groove issue they would last almost 50,000 miles based on my remaining tread depth without rotating. Of course, inspection is important to catch uneven wear issues early should they start to occur. The possibility of squeezing out a few extra miles would not justify the added 150$ in rotation costs over the 50,000 miles. Save your money and use it to buy the next set instead. Really expensive tires on some vehicles would have a cost analysis more favorable to rotation. The only reason that I have rotated them at all is that I think it is good to re-torque the lug nuts every 9 months or so to keep them from being a monster to loosen in case of a flat tire.
     
    #7 Ray Moore, Apr 22, 2005
  8. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    I'm driving for business the next two weeks, and will have money to buy a set of Hydroedge tires. There's some outside edge wear on one side of the car (rotated every oil change) but I didn't pay attention until after the first year was gone and with it the free alignment at the dealer.

    I have always thought the OEM tires weren't rain-worthy, and will take the initial MPG hit on the Michelins to feel more secure. A lifetime alignment deal would be nice, but I'm not sure which Michelin dealer would have that and good pricing so I'll have to shop...
     
    #8 mikepaul, Apr 22, 2005
  9. popsrcr

    popsrcr New Member

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    Tire threads rank right up there with the oil ones for me. :)

    I mean, really, what do you want from a $50 tire? I pay that much for bicycle tires.
     
    #9 popsrcr, Apr 22, 2005
  10. Robert Taylor

    Robert Taylor New Member

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    Check the USER feedbacks on Tire Rack. (pay absolutely no attention to sales reps blather about a tire, check what users write)

    On Tire Rack, the Goodyear Integrity tires have terrible feedbacks from users.

    Filter the feedbacks for a given tire by vehicle manufacturer, so you are comparing Toyota's with Toyota's and not what a tire does on a Lincoln Town Car, etc.

    Safe bets for the Prius are the Michilen Hydroedge, Goodyear Comfortred.

    I have Comfortred's, they actually do reduce felt vibration, and lower road noise on quality pavement (poor work on a road or the pavement breaking up will be noisy no matter what)

    There are a couple of Kuhmo's that are rated well by users for the Toyota as well.

    Someone here wrote about the Goodyear Triple Treads, was very pleased with them. I did not check that tire out for Tire Rack user feedbacks.

    I do not have to contend with snow, so if that is an issue for you, read the user feedbacks carefully before buying a tire for four season use.
     
    #10 Robert Taylor, Apr 22, 2005
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Ray,
    I note exactly the same thing as you on the Integrities. I've got a good 5mm left to the wear bars, but the outside and inside edges show significant wear. If the tread were that low/worn all the way accross the time I'd be extremely worried.

    The way I drive and with the safety buffer of the VSC I would hesitate to call the situation "unsafe", but sure is not ideal and wet road traction has clearly declined since getting the car and it was terrible when the tires were new.

    I think I'm going to try to ride out the summer with the current set and move to Hydroedge or something decent this fall...unless the tire wear accelerates before then.

    I'm at ~22k miles.
     
    #11 efusco, Apr 22, 2005
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Robert,
    My problem with user feedback is that you have no frame of reference at all. You don't know what kind of driver or driving exerience the rater has. You have no idea what other tires they've compared against and under what conditions.

    Clearly the manufacturers recommendations/ratings aren't worth a lot either.

    In my mind something independent such as Consumer Reports at least gives a level playing field...despite the flaws of Consumer Reports. I see it much like the EPA gas mileage issue. The devil you know.....
     
    #12 efusco, Apr 22, 2005
  13. Robert Taylor

    Robert Taylor New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"83382)</div>
    Evan,

    After spending some considerable time reading the Tire Rack feedbacks on tires that they stock for sale that are the correct 04/05 Prius size, I feel comfortable recommending following user feedbacks that are filtered by vehicle manufacturer, however there is considerable merit in what you wrote. While I too have long been a fan of Consumer Reports, occasionally their buying advice has not been less than stellar (my highly recommended dishwasher replacement comes to mind)

    I consider the user feedbacks on this forum to be superior to the "tests" of some of the various automotive writers whose worldview is often colored against the hybrid technology.

    Another point about Tire Rack feedbacks, the poster who submits them has to input driving style, some other information but the specifics are often quite elaborate in the comments sections and those comments with longer specifics I value more than the bland half sentence feedbacks of an eBay styled limit.

    The finest feedbacks for the Prius experience are found on this forum. There are other forums, but this is the best formatted one.

    PriusChat Rocks! And thanks for that role you play in it.
     
    #13 Robert Taylor, Apr 22, 2005
  14. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I hear ya Robert. We bought a Subaru Outback in 1997 or 1998 based upon very high ratings and recommendations from CR. We hated it and sold it within 2 years...only time we've ever turned a car around that quickly.

    Maybe the best thing to do is to look at multiple sources.

    If CR shows that the hydroedge performs well in it's wet road slolum and has a good braking distance. And the tire rack users say it rides well and handles well in their daily use then you can be pretty confidant that the tire will work well for you.

    OTOH, I wouldn't take any tire if one or the other had very low ratings...or clearly if both did.
     
    #14 efusco, Apr 22, 2005
  15. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    You should all read Goodyear's press release regarding its tires being selected for the Prius.

    Popular Toyota Prius Now Runs on Goodyear Tires

    Highlights:

    "North America's largest tire maker was selected to provide its Goodyear Integrity tires for the 2005 Prius. The tires are designed to offer a smooth ride -- essential to the fuel efficiency targets of the vehicle.

    "The Prius, now has a decent set of tires -- P185/65R15 Goodyear Integrity. Built to favor fuel economy over luxurious touring or sporty auto crossing, the Goodyear tires roll quietly down the road and generate 0.76 g of sideways stick in the corners and 0.89 g in a straight line under braking."
     
    #15 IsrAmeriPrius, Apr 22, 2005
  16. Dave

    Dave New Member

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    I bit the bullet and bought four Hydroedges last week. My mileage was 35,100, the outer edge of the stock tires was wearing down. I could have gone longer, but I figured better safe than sorry.
    The new tires "feel" wider, but they are not. They track better. (Far less wandering.) My mileage seems to have dropped about 1 mpg, but there are too many variables to know that for sure.
     
    #16 Dave, Apr 22, 2005
  17. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Frank:

    Manitoba was absolutely soaked last year due to never-ending rain, so we almost caught up to you.

    I had some close calls and a few scares with the Integrity tires. I noticed that when driving on wet roads, if I glanced at the rearview mirror, I could hardly see the tracks left by my tires.

    With under 1,000km on the car, I was able to trade up to Michelin Harmony. Just for the improved wet traction it was worth it. When I drive in rain I can clearly see the two tracks behind from the left and right side tires.

    Since my fuel economy didn't appear to change with the Harmony tires, then it was a worthwhile investment in safety.

    Jay
     
    #17 jayman, Apr 22, 2005
  18. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Oh my that was funny ...

    "Smooth ride" my a**.

    They should have said "low bidder selected to be OEM supplier."
     
    #18 jayman, Apr 22, 2005
  19. jamarimutt

    jamarimutt New Member

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    The stock tires are perfectly adequate. The only reason for changing them is to satisgy the urge to change something.
     
    #19 jamarimutt, Apr 22, 2005
  20. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    And one size fits all...
    That's just not an accurate statement at all. They may be perfectly adequate for some the same way that a single speed/gear bike is 'adequate', but if you want/need better performance or drive in conditions that are more demanding that flat smooth dry pavement in a straight line at 55mph it's probably a good idea to have something better.
     
    #20 efusco, Apr 22, 2005
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