Oil Change 2010 Prius - do it yourself

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Mr. Bill, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    630
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I suppose Amsoil is a good oil. I have used their universal ATF in a 1970's F-100 with a crate motor and a performance C6 auto trans. I found using the Amsoil the shifts were a bit quicker and smoother

    Some folks may be horrified at leaving the oil in +20,000 miles, but keep in mind that is a fairly common oil change interval now over in the EU with most EU domestic cars (VW, BMW, Mercedes, etc)

    If using Amsoil resulted in motors exploding I doubt Amsoil would still be in business. I would certainly use Amsoil before I used Royal Purple
     
  2. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    263
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    There could be a good reason for that. I could make a new oil and say never change it but it's probably a bad idea, though it may sell some bottles.

    The only thing that means anything is how amsoil compares with other oils in typical oil conditions. I am not sure that a four ball wear test is comparable to an engine during routine use, but there must be other studies about the stuff.

    Pretty much all the links that come up when I google "amsoil vs mobil 1" talk about how much better it is with a convenient "buy amsoil now" button on the side. Such sites are wholly irrelevant from an objective perspective.
     
  3. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Its true they have to be biased, but why don't the others claim and warranty the same in defense?

    The "good reason" I can think of is they would vastly lose more oil sales.
    Think how much less oil they will sell if everyone started going to 20 - 30K between intervals?

    There was already a quite extensive thread on that very fact just from going from 5K to 10K.

    There are many experts out here..... I always perk up when Jayman talks about oil.. If I remember right he's quite knowledgeable in the subject.

    At any rate.... I'll be the guinea pig as I've gone 25K now... we will see what the analysis says with a regular plain Jane oil filter.

    If the tests show bad, it is what it is.. I'll drop down next time.
     
  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    5,410
    3,638
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    The 0w20 valvoline syn I bought has a 300,000 mile guarantee. No info on the bottle so I had to go to their website and after a bit of searching around the fine print I found their warranty requirements. They mandate a registration of the vehicle and 4,000 mile oil change intervals from then on for the life of the vehicle (300,000 divided by 12,000 miles/yr equals 25 years). What a joke.
     
  5. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    263
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    They would lose sales. However, they don't feel very threatened I guess. For whatever reason Amsoil/royal purple, etc. aren't readily available in most stores. The stuff may be great but I am having a hard time finding data and I do have some cautions go up about smaller companies outperforming large in something like this.

    Regarding losing sales I know some bulb companies have been concerned about CFL and are particularly concerned about LED, which last many magnitudes longer than incandescent. LED is coming in fast now from what I can tell and bulbs will last years, in some cases probably in the decades.

    I always assumed watching the ad it was something like "We'll cover any parts only if you can prove that our oil specifically was the cause of the damage", so essentially meaningless "warranty".

    To be fair: https://valvoline.promo.eprize.com/engineguarantee/view_terms

    The details are not actually that hideous. 4k is overkill and Valvoline is obviously making up the money there, though. There is also 18 months lag before you can take advantage of this, that to ensure people don't get a dying vehicle and get it signed up.
     
  6. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Ok... I have my results in....
    Debated on whether to make a new thread for this one.. but for now its here..... Not bad!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    4,067
    686
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    From my perspective of limited knowledge that looks good for 25K. I am impressed, looks like Amsoil works OK. I'll have to consider it myself.

    Are you going to continue 25K oil changes? what kind of filter did you use?
     
  8. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I just used the same ones your using... I ordered a box of 10... nothing special.

    While they hinted I might check my air filter due to the silicon levels.... I have "never" changed it.. I only blow it out periodically with compressed air..... all the seals are perfect... especially on my 2010... but I haven't changed them on my 2006 either... they seem to clean just fine with air.
    Maybe I should reconsider changing them, but I'm reluctant to think thats significant since we are talking about the 2010 here... not the 2006 GenII rigs I have.
    My filter should be fine on my 2010... so changing it may do nothing.......
     
  9. rumpledoll

    rumpledoll Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    179
    42
    0
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I fine report, especially for 25,000 miles!

    Rumple
     
  10. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I was braced for it to be much worse.
    This genders lots of questions.

    1. Is it really that much better than the competitors?
    2. Do the competitors hold back knowing they sell much more if customers are forced to change more often?
    3. How can some competitors boast they are the best when they having nothing to prove it other than their own in house tests?

    I have no history with oil analysis and only those who do will be able to answer such questions I suppose.

    I have no idea if blackstone is buddies with any of the oil people.. but I chose them they didn't chose me.
    While it would be nice to have several labs do the same test on the same oil... I really think thats getting carried away.

    The main thing to guard against is low oil... to be fair concerning this test.. there was "one quart" of oil added during the 25K duration of this run to keep the oil at the top of the dipstick.

    To me, that irrelevant for my purposes.
    All I'm concerned about is.... is it safe to not have to deal with oil changes for one whole year?.. the answer is yes.

    For those sweating a few extra bucks for each quart are actually the ones wasting money if they change oil too often.

    When it comes to oil... a few bucks is nothing considering what its protecting.

    The power of advertising is if they can make the public believe its the norm and what everyone else is doing.. that it must be right....

    This test proves concerning oil changes.... thats wrong.
     
  11. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    3,524
    976
    8
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Good results. But there is no way I would do it in a brand new car basically voiding the drive-train warranty.
     
  12. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Another long discussion in the past about that too.....
    There is nothing in the warranty that says you have to have documented Toyota dealer signed, certified, signed from the service manager pages to verify when and where you got your oil changes.

    Oil change records are very nebulous and easily fabricated and of no use for grounds for denying warranty.

    You would have to actually cause damage easily proven as a result of no oil or dirty oil.

    While the former "may" be easy to prove, the latter would be very difficult unless the engine locked up and the dirty oil "or no oil" was still evident in the engine "smoking gun".

    There is no fear of voiding a warranty because you go 15K, 20K, or even 35K as long as no damage can be proven from such changes.

    Amsoil backs their oil and while difficult to prove you were compliant, Toyota only gives "recommendations" and one of which is to abide by the oil companies recommendations for their oil.
    The fact of the matter is.. there is no way to "enforce" absolutes.

    Amsoil request up to 35K for non heavy use and suggests oil filter changes at 25K.
    I have chosen to do both at 25K.

    By the same token, if you have obvious damage that shows damage due to running with no oil and you show up with full documentation from toyota dealers that you changed your oil every 5K... that still won't save you and that still doesn't mean they have to warranty against obvious neglect of forgetting to put the oil plug in or forgetting to tighten after the oil change.
     
  13. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    3,524
    976
    8
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Good points, but if you digged a bit deeper you would find accounts of sludged Toyotas/Lexus cars an a diet 25,000 mile Amsoil back in early 2000's. Amsoil denied their warranty on grounds of owners not changing oil filters at the required interval SHORTER than 25,000 miles (BTW, is it still required to change oil filters a few times within your 25,000 miles?). Toyota also voided warranty on grounds that owners had no proof of changing oil every 7500 miles (that was a requirement back then).

    I'm not saying that your new Prius will end up sludged, but to show that not everything Amsoil says can be trusted.
     
  14. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    When anything goes to court... its always a battle to get the other guy to pay..... proof is very nebulous.
    There is nothing anywhere forcing the customer to get oil changed at a certified place which will put some form of proof or stamp that time dates the occurrence of the oil change.

    As In my earlier post, if he would have given documents, they would have tried to worm out some other way.

    If the documents were fabricated, there is no way they can disprove it.. but thats not necessary as you are abiding by the oil manufacturers recommendations.

    There is no misleading going on by Amsoil, but rather lawyers trying to find loopholds.

    AMSOIL - Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (SSO)
     
  15. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    3,524
    976
    8
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    No, thanks, I don't want to go to the trouble of fabricating oil change receipts just to extend OCI from 10,000 to 25,000 miles. Like I said, there are problems with running Amsoil for 25,000 miles. Here is an example I found just by googling: Killed my wife's '03 Corolla - Toyota Forums :: Toyota Nation Go to post #13 and see that the OP used the same oil and filter as you did. There is some more reading about issues with Amsoil filters when used for 25,000 miles in Toyota cars: Clarification on Oil Filter Service Life in Toyota Engines | Oil Depot Blog - Amsoil Synthetic Oil Dealer in Canada and United States TSB: EAO Oil Filters - Toyota Applications Edit: how one makes new paragraphs? PriusChat deletes all my spaces!
     
  16. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    290
    14
    0
    Amsoil has substituted the Mann oil filters for some Toyota, Honda, and other makes I believe, not just Toyota. The Mann filter for these is just a rebadged Purolator classic. I don't think it would apply to the cartridge filter on the 2010 though. The Corolla and Prius engines aren't "sludgers." In the family we have a v6 Camry, which is supposed to be a "sludger", but it isn't. It all depends on the maintenance schedule.

    On and on, people keep ignoring the fact that the maximum oil change intervals are for ideal conditions. Most people, I would guess 90%, are not falling into the ideal use category, but severe use. That's fine, keeps the shops busy, and for me yet another reason not to buy a primary vehicle used car unless I see the records. On this one above going 25k definitely moved the warranty from Toyota to Amsoil. No way in H would Toyota ever pay an engine claim knowing that history, and no court would disagree. Toyota only needs evidence the schedule wasn't followed, end of case.
     
  17. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    The high silicon numbers could mean a better oil filter couldn't hurt.

    But after reading the link you provided... TSB: Using AMSOIL in Engines with Possible Sludge Issues

    I couldn't find our Atkinson Engine on the list as being one predisposed to sludge.
    If it was, I'm sure the oil analysis would have shown it too.

    You made a statement
    I agree, it would be a hassle to do so... but I'm not sure you caught in my post I explained "you didn't have to".

    Toyota gives "recommendations" ... not mandates.

    They would have to "prove" any damage incurred was due to misuse.

    This same discussion comes up on adding suspension parts, "the BT brace", modifying wheels, adding switches to turn off freezing navigation controls while moving etc etc.....

    Anything you do to your car has "Nothing" to do with your warranty unless it can be proven that what you did "caused" the damage. Is that clear?, fear seems to overrule sound reasoning.

    If I add 3 foot rear fins to the back of my car, it will not affect the warranty on my alternator.

    If the engine fails and quits working and throws a rod, it will have nothing to do with my oil the oil found in the engine shows good by oil analysis regardless of when I changed it last!

    If you lose a court case because of this, your lawyer was clueless.

    Before people get their reasoning clouded with "why take the chance"?, you have to keep going back to the oil analysis... if its good, its good.

    If someone doesn't want to believe the analysis, thats another issue.
    The oil test is nothing more than a DNA analysis at the crime scene.
     
  18. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    3,524
    976
    8
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Nope, you have thing mixed up. Air filtration and not oil filtration deals with Si (dust).

    You made some valid points, but I bet you your good lawer will cost you more than what you save extending OCI from 10,000 to 25,000 miles.
     
  19. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    263
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Are y'all SURE that Toyota could not reject a claim on a blown engine at 50k even if you'd never changed the oil unless they can prove unequivocally that not changing the oil had been cause for the engine malfunction? That proof would be virtually impossible. I cannot remember the wording in the warranty but I've been under the impression that its maint. schedule is imperative to follow to ensure warranty is addressed and even if you do it yourself you should show records.

    A friend of mine had a ford taurus engine blow some years back. He said the dealership pushed back until he could show his detailed records. If he had those I think they would have said no even if they could not "prove" that his lack of maintenance had caused the issue. I think at the least it could be a big chore debating this with Toyota or anyone else and you'll not be saving that much from 10k to 25k oil changes during the warranty period.

    The analysis up top is interesting. I have no idea if it's good or great, frankly or bad no idea (even reading the preferred ranges). I wonder how Mobil 1 would do in a blackstone analysis vs amsoil after a lot of miles?
     
  20. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6,278
    372
    0
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Thanks for the clarification... we do get lots of windy days here.....

    Does anyone know what numbers would go up if the Oil filter was inferior to using that many miles?...

    Yes your right about the lawyers and toyota has deep pockets, but maintenance records are weak evidence either "to" repair or to "deny" repairs.

    When they make "recommendations" they understand they cannot say "but you can't use X,Y,Z oil".. but rather know the customer may use a wide variety of oil and use it in a wide variety of operating conditions..... ranging from horrendous in the dusty mountains of Honduras to the paved streets of Connecticut.
    They have to make "recommendations" to cover the weakest link.

    I just hate to see drivers be bound to not exploring better alternatives and solutions than the weakest link.

    Using those better solutions but remaining to follow "weakest link" protocols is indeed a waste of money hence the rational many follow not to spend an extra 4 bucks on a certain brand but go with the cheapest.

    If your gonna change every 5K or 7.5K.. why spend more money on a product designed to go much farther? Just stick with Brand X common.
    On the other hand, if your gonna use a finer product, why throw it way when its not even half used its life yet with premature oil changes?
    Because some warranty somewhere suggest differently when that same warranty doesn't even specify which brand or quality your have to use?
     
Loading...