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Oil overfill caused complete shutdown

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by prius4gina, May 12, 2011.

  1. prius4gina

    prius4gina Prius Lovin' Woman

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    I just wanted to put this out there for the sake of the info being available for the next person it might happen to. I think our problem is solved but no guarantees, right? ;)

    I went to a local oil change place on Tuesday morning for an oil change. Had them change the air filter (engine and cabin) at the same time. The odometer is at about 165k on my 2006 base model Prius. When the job was completed and I pushed the power button, Christmas tree. Giant red triangle of death, check engine, and the display picture with the "!" in the middle. Can't put it into gear. Engine runs briefly and cuts out. Hmm, I say. Maybe they tripped a wire when they changed the filter? Nope, all was good there. Silly little tech put it on his code reading machine to no avail.

    I called the local Toyota dealership that I hate and don't use and they gave the oil change guy instructions to jump it. No dice. So I leave it in the bay and call a tow truck. Towing guy figures out how to get it into neutral and puts it on his truck to take to local hated dealership (mistake). Long day of fighting with oil change place, followed by super star service from larger dealership in Austin (60 miles away) with the service rep I always use. He diagnosed the likely problem over the phone. I didn't even let local hated dealership do the diagnostics. I put that little Prius baby on a flatbed and took her to Austin.

    Well, the codes pulled were P0A0F (engine failed to start) and P3190 (poor engine power). Well, that is the magic combination along with the experience of my service rep and tech to confirm that too much oil was added. It's was about a half of a quart. Crazy, right? Well, they cleaned the throttle body, interior of intake manifold of oil residue and all is well again. The big battery was completely dead so the dealership charged it up for me.

    Next morning I pick it up and big battery is charged about halfway. Not sure if they completely charged it the night before. However, by the time I got to work (maybe 5 miles), battery indicator was full (green). Yay, I say, Prius is happy again... I had an oddity when I had a longer stop light idle later that afternoon where the battery went from 4 blue bars down to purple, but drove the 60 miles back home and today the charge seems to be fine (4-5 blue bars). I have a sneaking suspicion that there may be more issues, but for now all is well. I'm going to get the 12V battery changed soon because we're still riding on the original.

    Anything I need to watch out for, my Prius-loving friends?

    Thanks for all the help you all freely give on a daily basis. I've learned so much in such a short time around here!
     
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  2. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Do you have any idea how much it was overfilled????
    What quantity did the oil change place say they put in???
     
  3. prius4gina

    prius4gina Prius Lovin' Woman

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    They are telling me and the paperwork says they added 4 quarts. Same as it always says. When we drained it at the first dealership, we measured 3.9 quarts coming out. I assume there would be a bit more in the filter and sucked into the engine. However, when we refilled to full with that same removed oil, we had a half quart left over when the dipstick read full.

    Second Toyota dealership says they routinely put in 3.6 quarts on an oil change.
     
  4. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    "about a half of a quart"

    Sounds very easy to do if they just round up to 4 in their heads. I'll keep doing my own.

    - D
     
  5. firepa63

    firepa63 Former Prius Owner

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    Half a quart overfill will not cause the problems you encountered. Your 12v battery is the most likely the cause. A weak 12v will definitely cause the fluctuations in charge level you are seeing with the traction battery.
     
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  6. prius4gina

    prius4gina Prius Lovin' Woman

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    Seemed kinda crazy to me, too. Any idea why it would happen at the same time as oil change?
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    1/2 quart overfill is trivial, it should not be "breaking" your car. I'd suspect something else.
     
  8. firepa63

    firepa63 Former Prius Owner

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    If your 12v battery was borderline and the oil change folks left a door open and/or the radio on while doing the oil change, the battery drained enough to prevent the car form going into READY mode.
     
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  9. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Nope, the oil was to blame. That is the only way to get those two codes. Frankly, you should not have re-used the oil, since the quick lube could have done something real dumb like put in 15W40.

    Charging the main hybrid battery is almost never done at a dealership, and the average one doesn't ordinarily have the charger. Even if they did do it, it is only charged to the point where it will start the car, and not anywhere close to a full charge. I could see them charging the 12V, however.

    You could easily lose two bars on the battery gauge if you are sitting at a long stop light with the A/C on full. We are talking about driving in Austin, after all!

    If you have a problem with the hybrid battery, you will find a decrease in gas mileage, you will hear the battery fan running (back seat, passenger side) frequently, and eventually you will get the big red triangle.
     
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  10. prius4gina

    prius4gina Prius Lovin' Woman

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    Thanks for the info. I have heard the battery fan running a couple times in the last week. So far today the battery seems happy again. I'm replacing the 12 volt and hoping the hybrid battery isn't failing.
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I would say that a dirty throttle body interior was the reason for the two DTC that were logged. 1/2 quart engine oil overfill by itself would not cause the problem.

    However, if the fresh engine oil is pumped out of the bulk storage tank at a rapid rate, the oil entering the engine may flow along the baffle located under the valve cover and enter the PCV hoses. Then the oil will enter the throttle body and seep down into the intake manifold below the throttle body.

    It is a good idea to replace the 12V battery as a preventive measure, although I doubt it was responsible for the no-start symptoms.

    It is unlikely that the dealer charged the high voltage traction battery (because only a very few chargers are available in the US) but it is possible that the tech may have force charged the traction battery after the car is READY. You can do this at home, or anywhere else for that matter. All you have to do is make the Prius READY, then shift into D. Hold the car stationary by pressing on the brake pedal with your left foot. Floor the accelerator with your right foot. You will notice that the traction battery state of charge gauge will move up and as the battery approaches 7-8 green bars, the engine speed will automatically decline.

    Since the car cannot move, the power produced by the gasoline engine is routed into MG1 which feeds electrical power into the inverter to charge the traction battery. As this process may heat up the transaxle unnecessarily, I don't suggest that you do this daily.

    Regarding what to watch out for, since the OP's car has a high odometer reading, I would recommend that she look at the 100K and 120K maintenance schedule and ensure that all items on those schedules have been performed. In particular, engine/inverter coolant drain and fill, engine/cabin air filter change and iridium spark plug replacement needs to be done. The transaxle ATF fluid also should be replaced if not done in the last 60K miles.
     
  12. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Hi prius4gina. Its seems odd that you would get those warning lights straight away as there are no sensors to detect an overfill. I would have thought you would have to a have driven the car around for a bit (and with more than 1/2 qt overfill) before that would happen. Ditto to run the traction battery right down.

    Could it be that the oil change guys messed around with the car for some time after changing the oil (before you got in it) trying to get it to start or run properly. If so then perhaps the initial overfill was much larger and they'd already found that part of the problem and drained some.
     
  13. babybird

    babybird Member

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    OK, I'm a Prius newbie here, but from what I've heard, over-filling the engine oil (even by as little as half a quart, or filling with too heavy oil weight like 10-w40 with cold temperatures) can cause those exact engine codes. I've heard from technicians that when changing oil on a Prius, it's very important that the person doing it understands that 4 quarts is too much for this engine, and it should never be filled to more than 3.6 quarts.

    The reason for the no-start condition is that MG1 has enough torque to snap the crank shaft of the ICE right in half if something should go wrong and prevent it from turning, so if the resolver (speed sensor) on MG1 detects it's not turning as fast as it should be when starting the ICE, it throws a failed to start code, or possible broken crankshaft code and shuts MG1 down to avoid further damage to the ICE. It has to respond pretty quickly to prevent damage because electric motors develop full torque at 0 RPM, so my guess is that it's very sensitive to any abnormal load against the ICE.

    Here is a great video I stumbled across the other night that explains the most common no-start conditions for the Prius (relevant info starts about 1:39 in):
     
  14. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    To Silerts and Babybird.

    Op is in Texas. In don't know which part but in Dallas this time of year the daytime temperature is well in the mid 70's. At just 72F a typical 15W40 oil is about twice as thin (yes that's right, half the viscosity) compared to what is a typical 5W30 oil at 32F.

    If a 10W40 or 15W40 oil was the cause of this problem then everyone using using 5W30 at temperatures under 50F (at which temperature 5W30 is about the same viscosity as 15W40 at 72F) would be constantly having this problem.

    I'm not recommending anyone use 15W40, but in TX at this time of year then that alone certainly wouldn't cause a loss of start. Except for a loss of a couple of MPG you'd barely notice a difference.

    Reference (Widman's viscosity calculator) : http://widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html
     
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  15. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    There is no abnormal load on the ICE if the fill is over the full line, not until probably until an inch and a half over or more. The ICE is not very unique compared to others. Even if the crank is touching the oil, which it isn't, except in an extreme overfill case, it won't stop it from turning to snap it. Plus I doubt the motor has anywhere near enough torque to snap the crank. That's just plain nonsense whoever tells a few ounces of oil in the pan over will snap the crank.

    The oil on most of these cars came delivered with the oil "overfilled", or not, depending on which way the factory error went, either the dipstick was calibrated wrong, or the oil fill spec is wrong. No one knows which it is.

    In this case who knows what really happened at the various shops, it is a rare shop that would tell the truth and admit wrong doing, and as rare for another shop to not find fault and blame the previous shop.
     
  16. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I agree with Patrick and Mr.Vanvandenburg. I've had my oil changed and they filled it to nearly an inch above the full dot and I experienced no codes or malfunctions.
     
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  17. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    We'll have to hear back from the OP but I suspect they only witnessed the end result of whatever the previous stuff up (or chain of stuff ups) that the lube shop did.

    If she had left it with them for another 15 minutes they probably would have delivered the coup de grace and tried to jump it with reverse polarity. Ok I know, I'm so horribly cynical. ;)
     
  18. prius4gina

    prius4gina Prius Lovin' Woman

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    Wow, I continue to be amazed at the knowledge base gathered here. Many thanks for all of the feedback. I'm in Day 2 post-fix and the battery seems to be leveled off (no significant up/down charge levels) and happy. I am still going to order a 12volt just because of the mileage and time we've owned the car, and thanks Patrick for the great advice. My list is made and I'll be calling my service guy to see how long I have to save up to get all of these items checked off.

    uart, I suppose the oil change guys could have done some playing around, but they were finished in probably 10 minutes. I think my problems were caused by several different factors, but the oil change place stepped up and paid for my towing and repairs. I have to give them props for that.

    Thanks again for all the feedback. I love this place!
     
  19. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Apparently it can't be said too many times: Always check the oil yourself before driving away from every oil change, no matter who does it. You can find all kindsa dumb mistakes before they become annoying or expensive. If someone else does the work, do them a favor by telling them in advance that you will check it before leaving. And then do it.

    And, oh yeah: three quarts even is plenty. Try it and see.
     
  20. seedypea

    seedypea Junior Member

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