Online petition for Plug-in hybrids

So what are your findings? How much would a plug-in help?

 

NREL, huh? I can see NREL out my window! Look towards Louisville! Can you see me waving? No? I can see the wind turbines!

Anyway, do you guys still have your RAV4 EV? Want to part with it? I'll love and take care of it. Really, I will!

Nate

 

I have serious doubts that a plug-in hybrid is feasible with today's battery technology. See my comments under the "Prius vs. Corolla" thread to understand how different such a car would have to be from a Prius to be practical.

 

I'll make you a deal. I'll go read your reasons why it is not feasable, if you'll watch this webcast that outlines why it will be feasable. Deal?

http://www.connectlive.com/events/austinen...50k-archive.asx

 

I agree. I have to laugh at all the Li battery talk. While the higher energy density is great, both the cost and the lifetime suck. Do a Google search for Li battery lifetime and you will find lots of professional articles/papers on the very limited lifetime all the different rechargeable Li chemistries seem to exhibit. I have seen nothing on extending the lifetime with the tricks Toyota uses with the NiMH battery in the Prius. I am an Electrical Engineer that has been watching the literature on this off and on for 25+ years. A rechargable Li-Ion battery pack with today's technology would have to be replaced every 2-3 years with the cost far higher than our NiMH pack's.

What's needed? A breakthrough in lifetime via chemistry or smart battery management. Along with safety improvements (see cell phone fires with off brand batteries). And some real progress in manufacturing technology to bring the cost down. You can be certain there are lots of people working on all three. It just isn't there yet.

- Tom

 

Watch an hour and a half video vs. read one post? Sorry, at work I can't spare that kind of time!

 

That's fine. I can wait until you're home. Yes it is long, but you'll hear from people who have actually been doing what you say shouldn't/can't/won't be done. You may be surprised to hear why we should do it, how we can do it, and who thinks we should be doing it.... as well as seeing that it is already done.

We don't need to use Li-ion, though we'll have some great options for its use soon. a Plug-in version of the Prius requires NOTHING that we don't already have - and have tested in the field. It requires ZERO user intervention. If you don't want to plug it in, then you don't have to. And all we're talking about is allowing it to be an OPTION for people to have. Today we have a choice of petroleum, or ... petroleum. Mostly imported... or mostly imported. In the past ten years, battery energy density has almost doubled every year. We went from lead-acid to NiMH to Li-Ion. Does anybody really think that we're all done improving batteries suddenly?

I'm a guy who depends on battery power for over 90% of the miles I drive. And it has been that way for almost six years now. My family drives about 12,000 miles on battery power alone. I keep hearing that the technology we need isn't here yet. But the cars I've driven were all designed in the late 80's and use, at best, early 90's battery chemistries. A vehicle built today, with the best batteries that we already have in production would be stellar... and they'll only get better. But we have to start somewhere.

It surprises me to hear Prius owners suggest that battery propulsion technology will not or cannot be used more effectively than it is being used in the current Prius. The sentiments sound suspiciously like what non-Prius owners say about the validity and effectiveness of the battery in the Prius!

If folks are willing to even entertain the idea that Fuel Cell Vehicles will ever be practical or affordable, then good Battery cars are a shoe-in.

Anyway, I hope you'll be able to watch the long clip at some point.

 

Here's a transcript of the whole thing if that's easier.

http://www.calcars.org/partners-launch.html