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Oppy...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ETC(SS), Aug 2, 2023.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Did NOT have this on my 2023 Bingo card....
    A three hour long movie history movie with zero chase scenes and only one explosion, that is grossing over 150 mil domestically, barely beating an indy that nobody is talking about, and getting trounced by a movie about a 1959 plastic doll......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppenheimer_(film)

    I haven't seen it myself yet because there's an approximately zero-percent chance that my CFO will sit in a theater to see.....a three hour long movie history movie with only one explosion.

    I read the book (American Prometheus) a while back and I'm on the waiting list to read it again.
    I will either rent or buy the movie as soon as it's available so that I can enjoy it without sticky floors and the inability to hit a pause button for biological breaks.

    So...
    Anybody seen it?
    Thoughts?
     
    #1 ETC(SS), Aug 2, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2023
  2. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    I'm with you - I'll stream it when available and pause it as many times as necessary. Three hours is a bit excessive. Whatever happened to movie intermissions, e.g. Lawrence of Arabia?
     
  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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  4. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    There must be others, since they didn't include Lawrence of Arabia...
     
  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Concur....
     
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Spoiler alert;

    In less than ⅓ of a second the temps rose to over 13,000°f w/in a one mile radius .... and for the next 2 to 3 seconds - only things like metal coins survived - somewhat melted & fused.

    Screenshot_2023-08-02-07-07-39-76_e4424258c8b8649f6e67d283a50a2cbc.jpg

    the ghouls come out of the woodwork to buy stuff like this

    Historians claim the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history. one would think we won't be around to see if this ism comes to fruition

    11th century bc ... the Philistines sent Goliath into the arena to settle a national dispute. We don't do it that way now but there's something about picking a champion to win a 'war' ....
    .
     
    #7 hill, Aug 2, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2023
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Or?
    Somebody used a blow-torch.
    I have questions and doubts about the authenticity of the item(s) as described.
    As far as spoiler?
    Well....yes and no.
    The Hiroshima bomb was a gun-type uranium device.
    So utterly simple that it required no testing, and it would have only been a spoiler had it NOT worked.
    The bomb type that H Robert tested in Lost Almost (and we used on Nagasaki) was a plutonium fueled implosion type weapon.
    That second mission was very nearly what the Brits call a 'balls-up' job.
    For one thing, Nagasaki wasn't supposed to be the target that day.
    From an article I picked at random:
    The crew of the B-29 Bockscar was not supposed to have targeted Nagasaki, a port city on Japan's eastern coast. Cloud cover forced the mission's commander to re-route the attack from its intended objective, he industrial hub Kokura. A third city, Niigata, was also on the target list that day

    The B-29 used in that raid is still on display in Ohio.
    I've actually walked through it.
    It came to within 8 gallons of running out of fuel, the crew were forced to land on a different island, nearly wiped out a row of planes when they DID land, they nearly got themselves shot down over Kokura, and they missed the aim point by miles, inadvertently destroying 2 very military targets but sparing tens of thousands of ODCs in the heart of the city's residential area.
    Trying to fit a 12-year-old jewish (despite how he's depicted in the statuary) boy into a fateful 06 Aug over Hiroshima....but hey.
    It's August, so I guess I'm here for it.
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Those melted coins were apparently sold at auction by liveauctioneers.com Perhaps they would comment on your authenticity concerns.

    ==

    I have watched Christopher's Nolan's version

    Oppenheimer (2023) - IMDb

    on this small computer screen, but I decline to say how. It was worth seeing, but I preferred this

    Oppenheimer (TV Mini Series 1980) - IMDb

    I have not seen

    Manhattan (TV Series 2014–2015) - IMDb

    Yet. Which has been very favorably reviewed. Books and video material abounds on this topic. It is fascinating to read about Oak Ridge in the 1940's as I spent a few years there much later. Can't tell all those stories either. A pity.
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I'd not call anything involving 50 kg of Uranium 235 as simple, but it certainly was kludgy. Three percent of that underwent nuclear fission, of which about 1 gram was converted to energy, which made the remaining 97% disperse very rapidly.

    Later pure fission designs use a lot less U235. And always implosion I think, not guns. All public knowledge, but some secret sauce remains.

    Most of the hard work remains in separating the desired Uranium isotope. Four of the five known methods :) are described here:

    https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/history/isotope-separation-methods/
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm pretty sure plutonium remains the primary fission 'spark plug' for thermodynamic weapons. My understanding is a fission-fusion-boosted version uses an under-enriched uranium cylinder filled with the 'fission stuff'. Hydrogen fission releases fast neutrons that fission the uranium cylinder that briefly (i.e., sub microseconds) hold things together while the magic occurs.

    What I find amazing is the lithium-deuterium filler transforms all of the lithium into hydrogen that is already in a molecular bond with deuterium. The "Castle Bravo" test was ~3 times larger than expected because it had 1/3d of the expected fissionable lithium isotope but the neutron flux transformed the rest of the lithium isotope into hydrogen.

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I'm disappointed. My thermodynamics classes didn't touch on this stuff at all. Didn't have a thermonuclear class choice.

    I thought hydrogen fused, not fissed. It doesn't (initially) have any neutrons, though deuterium and tritium do, and some protons do get converted to neutrons in the reactions.

    At bomb energies, I didn't think that any reaction components or products were molecules, just bare atom nuclei, until things eventually cool down. At these operating temperatures, thermal motion energies vastly exceed any possible molecular binding energies, so they all break apart. Even electrons break away.

    Here is the wikipedia version:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo#High_yield
    For cost and supply limitation reasons, they used a mixture of 40% lithium-6, thought to be the only bomb-useful reactive version, and 60% lithium-7 to fill out the rest. The later was thought to be "inert" because, while it was transmuted to lithium-8 which then decays into useful pieces, the decay normally had a half-life of about a second. In bomb-land, where the really fun stuff is over in a couple hundred nanoseconds, a one second half-life is millions of times too late. What they didn't know until this test, is that at these bomb-level energies, lithium-8 fissioned quickly enough to join the party.
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Plutonium (239) 'pits' (central small fission initiators) are necessary for compact devices. They do not have a peaceful use as in thermonuclear reactors, unlike Uranium 235 enriched up to a sub-military level.

    So, plutonium separates high tech and low-tech bomb making. If any of it can be called low tech. Also, Pu is not any easy thing to hide, and if one is not managing its allotropes well, one's gadget may underperform. It's all a terrible bother.
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    And that's before it goes boom.
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    A recent entrant to the Nuclear Club on the Korean Peninsula has seemed to have limited success in making booms, but more success in rocketry. It may inform us about what is more difficult.
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons began in 1945 which was in this movie. Long on my to do list has been summarizing global atmos testing because it is an efficient way to to globally disperse radioactive elements. So, I did that.

    The era of atmos testing peaked in 1962 with 176 'shots' (US and USSR combined) an impressive total of almost one per two days. Including the well-known 'Tsar Bomba'. If an extraterrestrial civilization were in position to observe neutrinos from Earth in 1962, it would have seen something most peculiar.

    Up to then, a total of 403 million tons of TNT explosive equivalent had been shot. It doubled atmospheric concentrations of carbon 14, and increased hydrogen 3 (tritium) one-hundred fold. Other interesting radioactive elements were also dispersed globally; not summarized here. People outside that competitive spree caused the adoption of an atmospheric test-ban treaty. US and USSR went underground with testing.

    Not all countries signed that treaty. From 1966 to 1980, other nations shot 32 more million tons of TNT explosive equivalent into atmosphere in nuclear-weapons tests. Feeling the need, am I right?

    Then ended atmos 'dispersal' testing. Other than nuclear power plants occasionally losing containment and a few other leaky processes, Earth will not again be painted in this way.

    Unless global militaries decide to use what they have. Weapons with about 8000 million tons of TNT explosive equivalent are available; >18 times what has been tested to date. That would greatly diminish Earth's capacity to support life forms larger than 1 gram body size.

    That is not the future Oppy hoped for.
     
  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Yes, I caught it earlier this week at a small all recliner theater without a child or teenager in attendance.

    It is a quite impressive film with superb directing, screenplay and cinematography. The lead is a relatively unknown Irish actor who pulls it off nicely supported by dozens of familiar actors such as Matt Damon as the commanding general at Los Alamos and Emily Blunt as his wife with issues.

    A couple of sex scenes between Oppenheimer and his mistress brings the R rating and is somewhat unexpected. Definitely not a kids show on any level.

    It is first and foremost a biography of Oppenheimer with the Manhattan Project as background during the second hour. The film highlights Oppy as a charismatic prodigy who was acknowledged the leading American Physicist while still in his twenties. So impressive they put him in charge of the project with no previous management experience of any kind.

    Apparently Germany had a two year head start and everyone knew their Jewish scientists were just as good as America's. Einstein was around but was aging and did not participate. The leading German scientist/rival was Heisenberg. Unfortunately not played by the Breaking Bad guy.

    The film has very little serious technical content but holds your interest well for the first two hours through the successful atomic test. This was quickly followed by Truman ordering their use in Japan. Only the first test is depicted in detail.

    This is a good time for a break if three hours at a sitting does not work for you.

    In the third hour it drags a bit as we go through a protracted McCarthy era attack on Oppenheimer's integrity. He survives a Senate inquiry with last minute support from the junior senator from Massachusetts.

    Overall a worthwhile adult diversion which is sure to win awards.
     
    #17 rjparker, Aug 11, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I might have said that the whole movie is framed by two hearings, a McCarthy-era one into Oppy's security clearance renewal, and a later Senate hearing on a cabinet-post bid by the guy who (may have?) set Oppy up with the earlier hearing. Most of the movie is flashback, and the Manhattan-project material is flashback². Who survived which hearing is ... well, watch the movie. :)

    I'm still puzzling out the shifts between black & white and color. To a first approximation, I'm thinking the B&W is for events being retold by somebody in a hearing, or filtered through one person's recollection, and the color more of a "what really happened". But I don't think that's quite it; if I remember right, some of the non-flashback hearing material was B&W, and one color scene, at least, had a thoroughly impressionistic element. I haven't had the aha! yet where it all falls into place.

    The hearing scenes might seem draggier the less one has experienced (or known people who've experienced) those kinds of proceedings. Finding them draggy may be an occasion for gratitude.

    More than one explosion. One bigger than the others.
     
  19. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Correction noted. Thanks.
     
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    My presumption after reading AP some years back and a few other books about the project is that the future that Oppy hoped for was that he would be famous, rich, and get to bang Hollywood starlets while they were making movies about him.
    For a smart dude he made some stupidly bizarre life choices including a three-pack-a-day habit that probably killed him more quickly than his lifetime rad exposure.
    Everyone on the project KNEW that the Germans weren’t going to come up with a usable weapon, and they knew also that the Commies WOULD….

    Smart people actually know things.
    They knew that Pandora's box got cracked open in the 1930s when scientists started tinkering with fission, and they knew also that science “sometimes” is not wisely used by the human animal.

    Gladwell’s Bomber Mafia is an excellent co-witness to American Prometheus.
    Those early fliers wanted precisely addressed air-mail to eliminate the necessity of mass slaughter on the battlefield.

    It worked.

    Owing to technology limits in the 1940s the mass slaughter occurred in cities instead and the tinkering continues.
    According to recently unclassified information we have the ability to target one person in one car from the other side of the planet without hurting any of the other people in the car. (*)
    OTOH, and also according to unclassified information the Rooskies have an autonomous, nuclear powered, nuclear armed torpedo in serial production with a 100kt-to 2mt payload.

    upload_2023-8-12_9-4-15.jpeg

    (*) I choose to believe this capability wasn’t used in August of 2021 because of incompetence only because wiping out a family on purpose just to score style points was hopefully NOT the intent.