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P261B code on 2013 prius C that drove to body shop w no faults but won't start month later to leave

Discussion in 'Prius c Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by archibald tuttle, Feb 7, 2024.

  1. archibald tuttle

    archibald tuttle Junior Member

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    well, the rear quarter looks better. Can't find any threads in the prius C forum on this so posting a new one while also glomming on to a P261B discussion in 3rd gen. These symptoms seem close to what I'm trying to solve except they manifested while driving rather than while taking a month off. took the car to body shop for rear quarter damage (bought it that way, drove it 4000 miles, now getting it spruced up). Went to get it and it wouldn't start the ICE. has a P261B fault which it seems shuts you down so maybe it prevents you starting although I don't know how it can know you have low circulation if the engine doesn't start or maybe this is just a derivative fault where you don't have circulation because the engine doesn't start. but I would think there would be some other code to explain why the engine didn't start. (also showing a P0453 evaporative emission sensor code but most crowd sourcing says that will not shut the car down or stop engine from starting. I do wonder where that sensor is. the body work was rear quarter and the guy doesn't think he unplugged anything. the tank is bank there. but I don't think this would stop it from starting . . . although i probably have to get it figured out in order to pass inspection.)

    when I turn the key to Start (the equivalent of pushing the start button on standard prius, I believe, I hear a relay pull in the relay and fuse panel on the passengers side near fire wall. other than that nothing. dash is lit (battery went dead while the thing was sitting at body shop but put another battery in and dash is fully lit. shift the car to D or R and the indicator on Dash shows the change but engine doesn't start and a message pops up to shift back to park and check hybrid system.

    anyone in the hive mind got any ideas? thanks, brian
     
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    New 12v battery? What is the current voltage? Have you reset codes?
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    when i took my 04 to a body shop, they ran the hybrid battery down.
     
  4. archibald tuttle

    archibald tuttle Junior Member

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    @rjparker tried resetting codes with torque pro. not sure if they actually cleared though.

    @bisco drprius wouldn't talk to my bluetooth yesterday so i couldn't check hybrid battery although i think it would set a code for that, no?
     
  5. archibald tuttle

    archibald tuttle Junior Member

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    @vvillovv also points out that it is normal for body shop to disconnect traction battery although my guy says he did not. i feel like it should throw other codes if its got no traction battery but if i want to check plug, what is the location on the prius C. I could also unplug and directly check battery voltage if I can't get the dr. prius program workings. it has been a nightmare with the bluetooth adapter.
     
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  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Get a better code reader.

    Those bluetooth dongles are not created equal. Lots of counterfeits with incompatibilities. I wish I had specific guidance, but the day after somebody posts "Okay brand _____ is the good one!" it becomes the most-counterfeited version.

    Maybe get a few from someplace that takes returns easily enough and work your way through?

    The onboard diagnostics are smart enough to tell you specifically if it is the service safety plug or something else.

    The service safety plug is under the back seat, right side, facing forward, a little bit inboard of the 12v battery.

    Slide it down, open the latch and pull it towards the front of the car to remove it. ↓ ↷ →
    Push it in, close the latch and slide it upward to replace. ← ↶ ↑

    (3 moves for each operation)
     
    #6 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Feb 8, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2024
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  7. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Dr Prius app web page - priusapp.com
    has a writeup on adapters that work with the app - specifically mentioning the panlong adapter Jack used when developing the app.
    The link is in the menu at the very too of the home page - titled - ODB2 to buy.

    The testing and recommended adapter list and other info is available at the respective web pages for the torque app - torque.bhp.com
    hybrid assistant app - hybridassistant.info
    and the
    carscanner ELM ODB2 app - carscanner.info.

    If the Safety Service Plug Grip is removed or not fully set by pushing it down, if and when the accessible positive and negative terminals are found and measured the multimeter reading should always show 0 volts or similar.
     
    #7 vvillovv, Feb 8, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2024
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Note that the c model is upside down from the original. Final step of insertion is UP.
     
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  9. archibald tuttle

    archibald tuttle Junior Member

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    @Leadfoot J. McCoalroller and @vvillovv thanks for info. this dongle has worked with dr. prius in the past, its just moody. finally got it to hook up today. battery is showing 10 cells, one low but not off the charts voltage of 15.13 the others or 15.16 and 15.18. pack voltage 151.63 state of charge 58.83%. i haven't checked that plug yet. don't know if it's possible that the pack voltage can be read but poor connection to deliver amperage needed?

    checking again with torque pro, only fault of relevance seems to be the the P261B. Folks seem to say that relates to the circulation from the belt driven engine water pump and not the electric pump for coolant of hybrid side electrics but should I be checking that electric pump? could that also be implicated. i try clearing the fault. not clear to me if it is clearing and immediately resetting or its not clearing.

    still getting the message shift to park and check hybrid system.

    thanks,

    brian
     
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    There is no belt-driven water pump in the Prius c. That's one of the major differences between the 2nd generation Prius 1.5L and the Prius c 1.5L. An electric pump was used instead.

    At this point you way want to consider looking up your P261B code in a c-specific reference such as the repair manual. It doesn't sound like they used the code exactly the same way in this model.

    EDIT:

    Say...

    Is there any chance at all that this is actually a P2618 code?

    The presence of an alpha character in a P2xxx code struck me as weird.

    So I looked up the P2618 code, which is "Crankshaft Position Signal Output Circuit Low," and that is definitely something that would cause a Prius to not want to start its engine.

    Made me wonder if this was a classic B/8 readout error?

    If so, they either bumped a connector or a mouse ate a wire related to the crank sensor while the car sat.
     
    #10 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Feb 11, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2024
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  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    P261B probably means the same thing in a c that it means in a gen 3 liftback or v, as they all have the electric water pump. P261B means the pump is doing less than 900 RPM when the ECM wants it to do more.

    As far as I know, that code won't prevent you from starting. It will, however, unceremoniously shut the engine off if it happens to reach 105 ℃ while a water pump code is present.
     
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  12. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    @archibald tuttle If drprius is having trouble connecting to your adapter, I'd think torque would also show some issues with the adapter. I know my ELM327 adapter does get a warning from HybridAssistant and some messy reads in torque, and still works well with drPrius.


    @ChapmanF the techinfo.toyota.com is now updated with a small price increase and some links to techinfo.snapon that I've not noticed for several years. But login is now right on the main page again instead of only available from a tiny link in techstream lite pdf file.
     
    #12 vvillovv, Feb 11, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2024
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yeah, there have always been .snapon links under the hood; seems like that's who runs the site for them.
     
  14. archibald tuttle

    archibald tuttle Junior Member

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    @Leadfoot J. McCoalroller sorry, took me a snow storm or two to get back under the hood. OK, got it on the water pump. I just saw it bolted to the engine and presumed it ran off the time belt or some such but I see it is hybrid of traditional location and mounting with electric.

    gotta charge the 12V and i'll retake the codes. don't think i mistook 8 and B but since you don't think the water pump code would prevent start, you got me wondering.

    one of the few realtime sensors that torque pro can read without the engine starting is the water temp, and it ain't no 105 degree C.

    more like 0 degrees C.

    struck me as odd that if electric they would bolt the water pump onto the engine with a traditional kinda gasket setup. I would have just mounted it on the fender somewhere with good piping angles and used a radiator hose . . . but thats the way I think.

    so when I just power up and turn the ignition, is the pump supposed to start before the engine does. maybe i can listen with a stethscope. or is there a flow reading of some sort, since you say it is looking for a minimum flow, i wonder if i can get that parameter with torque pro, or some equivalent.

    thanks much
     
  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The water pump is bolted to the side of the engine because without it, there would still be a water-pump-sized hole to cover in the engine block casting. So they just made a new pump to fit the same block cavity that doesn't have a shaft & pulley sticking out. Much cheaper than re-working the block casting.

    The computer knows what speed it is requesting of the pump, and the pump is also equipped with its own tachometer so it can report back to the computer how fast it is actually spinning. Thus the computer can notice a difference between what was requested and what was achieved. I know torque can be made to show this, but I don't know how myself.

    Good luck!