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P3130 - Bad Inverter Water Pump

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Yakuzahi, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. Yakuzahi

    Yakuzahi Junior Member

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    2002 Prius with 94K gave me today P3130, after I tested the Inverter Water Pump I found out that it bad but until I go to the dealer in order to buy the part $147 he was closed. the question is can I drive with the car like this bac home (65 miles) and if I turn on the A/C the Engine will work all the time right?
    And also after replacing the Inverter Water Pump how can i tell if the problem solved?
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Perhaps some more details?

    • How did you read the P3130 code?
    • Did you test the relay that provides power to pump?
    If the inverter fails because it overheats, it will be ~$1,000 or more plus the time the car is down because of the failure.

    Personally, I think it makes sense to keep the car parked, get a cab to a motel, and have the car towed to the dealer in the morning. I would not recommend risking a $1,000 part for want of a couple of hundred dollars.

    One risk, they may not have an inverter pump in stock. In which case, either rent from the dealer or call Enterprise and rent something until the Prius can be repaired.

    They are not connected in any way.

    Usually you can hear it by turning the ignition on however mine is fairly quiet. The other way is to look at the inverter coolant revesvoir to the left of the inverter. If you take the cap off, you can see some turbulence. Also, the resevoir has a step so the level of the pink fluid would be offset.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    As Bob said, it's not advisable to do this especially in hot summer weather.

    My guess is that there is a low probability that a randomly chosen Toyota dealer will have a Classic inverter water pump sitting on the shelf waiting for a parts customer sale. You'll find out soon enough whether or not this is the case with your nearby dealer.

    If this were my car and I wanted to avoid the tow charge, I would be inclined to buy a bag of ice, make a few holes in it so that melted water can leak out, tape the bag to the top of the inverter so that the water will flow onto the inverter cover, and drive along. After 20-30 miles, stop at a gas station, check the status of the existing ice, and buy another bag of ice if needed.

    If the car has a problem along the way, then stop, let it cool off, and you should be able to proceed. However there is a possibility that you may damage the inverter permanently so you'll have to decide whether you are comfortable assuming that risk or not.

    The Classic AC compressor is belt-driven, powered by the engine crankshaft pulley. If you depress the MAX AC button which conveys your desire for the compressor to run continuously, then the engine will run continuously to power the compressor. (I'm not sure how this issue is relevant to the question of the failed inverter coolant pump? Running the AC and the engine continuously is not going to help inverter cooling, if that was the intent of your question.)
     
  4. Yakuzahi

    Yakuzahi Junior Member

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    Bob and Patrick, thanks for your advice.

    I didn't use the car in the end, I left my car at a bus shop where my friend used a small scanner to scan the error. We went straight to the pump, as we did not feel that the pump was working. After giving the pump power and ground, we knew for sure that the pump had gone bad. I called a dealer nearby and they had the pump for $147 (cheaper than on eBay). I picked it up this morning and went back to the bus shop in order to replace it. I must tell you how painful it was to replace the pump.

    The pump is located behind the drivers side headlight. In order to remove the pump you must remove the headlight, but in order to remove the headlight you need to remove the front BUMPER. It wasn't hard to do but it was time consuming.

    After installing the new pump, I disconnected the auxiliary battery ground for 2 minutes. After that everything was fine. The error and the exclamation point light were gone and the car was ready to drive.
     
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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Please take a peek at the fluid circulation in the 'electricals' coolant reservoir over the next few days, to make sure that the coolant air bleeding has been successful. (Bob mentioned this test last)
     
  6. Yakuzahi

    Yakuzahi Junior Member

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    Sure, I will do that in a few days.

    Thanks.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Any possibility of getting the failed pump for some forensics?

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. Yakuzahi

    Yakuzahi Junior Member

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    Bob, well I tried, but it was never successful. It's solid and very hard to get into the motor. I even tried to smash it with a hammer, but it stayed in one piece. I must say, after I read that so many people had this problem on the 2005 Prius with 50K miles, I think that I got a long run with my pump on the 2002 Prius that I bought from the NY DOT in October 2009 with 60K miles, which I have since added 34K miles to.

    If you want it, I can get it from the shop and ship it to you.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The hammer experiment sounds interesting but yes, I still want it. My plan is (in case you want to give it another go) :

    1. Electrical tests - the B+ goes on the pin with the two small channels. I'd like to know if it still sinks current or does it show 'open'
    2. Use a Dremil tool around the base - there are three, small vent holes. I'm very curious about what is 'behind' the plate. Including circuits and motor connection. Is it a brushless or brushed motor with a diode?
    3. Dremil the outer ring of the impeller pump - to understand why when the motor turns the screw visible via the intake pipe does not turn. This suggests the impeller is on a bushing and some sort of gearing drives it.
    4. Where is the vibration coming from? - Did they make one of the parts deliberately weighted to vibrate.
    If you do take it apart, be sure and take plenty of photos and measurements. Otherwise, send me a PM on shipping to Huntsville, AL 35802 and I'll 'paypal' to cover it.

    I have a used inverter pump but I didn't want to 'sacrifice' it yet. I've got a 2010 inverter pump on the way (similar price to the dealer pump.) But your failed pump would be ideal to for a little Dremil engineering. <grins>

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson
     
  10. Yakuzahi

    Yakuzahi Junior Member

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    Behind the back of the pump, there is a small spring and that's it. All the area is covered with some hard rubber. I will have to pick it up on Monday and I will let you know.
     
  11. w2co

    w2co Member

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    P3130 - The HV ECU checks the operation of the inv. water pump and detects malfunction. I see in the manual wiring diagram (pDI-307) with IG2 relay, ig switch, fusible link, pump motor etc.. I wonder from which point in this circuit the ecu monitors from and for what parameter? My guess is from point IK1 which is in series w/ +side of motor. They may already be doing a motor noise/current measurement via that line?
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Since the hybrid vehicle ECU can differentiate between the inverter coolant pump being inoperative and the electric cooling fan being inoperative, I assume that the ECU can monitor the current flow to the coolant pump and the fan motors, and if the value is outside some range then the ECU will assume that the motor in question is inoperative.
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I've looked for a sense point on the inverter pump circuit but no luck. It can't be measured as a voltage unless there is a shunt resistor. That is one of the reasons for my ad hoc, current sense transformer.

    The engine air, mass flow sensor works by measuring the resistance changes of two wires, one in the air flow and the other in stagnant air (hot wire sensor.) This is why I suspect P3130 may come from a ratio of the inverter temperatures or perhaps rate of power electronics temperature change vs current. If we put in a valve or loop, we might be able to test these hypothesis.

    As for radiator fan failure, I don't know.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. w2co

    w2co Member

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    I can understand the radiator temp sensor if they are comparing temp values to detect a failure, example: if inv. water pump fails the inv. temp will probably skyrocket (at highway speeds) compared to the radiator temp which will probably be falling if the car is moving forward. Perhaps a backup detection method, but of course a more immediate method of failure detection would be to directly monitor motor current. I will put the pump on the bench soon and try to measure "stalled current" vs. "running current". Still waiting on the flow sensors though, I want to do this with coolant running in the loop.
     
  15. w2co

    w2co Member

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    BTW through my inv. pump/flowsensor experiment I have found that the pump is always drawing around ~1A@12v , start current is ~1.3A-1.5A, running current ~1A constant, stalled impeller ~900ma. So now wonder if they are monitoring current to detect a failure of the pump. That's a pretty narrow current window to measure accurately, unless of course it happens to short out! That would be easy to detect..
     
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