P3191, LOL

OK, I posted about this car, but a new thread to focus on the no-start. This car has sat for 3 years, supposedly ran before that. Was wrecked in the front. Starts, and gets to Ready, but then the ICE shuts down and the triangle lights. Still says Ready, and would probably back up.

The ICE stumbles badly and sputters for about 10 secs before giving up. First scan w/TorquePro pulled up the P1656 that caused me to go down the oil control valve rabbit hole I describe in the earlier thread. I have cleared the codes several times to check progress, and that one hasn't come back after I pushed the connector on better.

Then, I saw a P1128 code come up, but after clearing it and restarting the engine, it didn't come back. I'm not sure the 10 seconds of sputtering is enough to set some of the codes, so that one could still be the issue.

Anyway, I've pulled up the diagnostic procedures for the 3191, of course, that covers almost everything. But reading through it, and based on observation, and long lay-up time, I'm thinking fuel issues to be the problem. Something gunked up or bad fuel in the tank. But I'm going to recheck the connectors first. This car was in a front-end wreck and there was damage in that area - already had the issue with the OCV connector.

After that, probably spray the throttle body and MAF again, then take out the plugs to see what they look like.

 

OK, a little progress. Visual check all the throttle body wiring and it seems OK. Washed everything again with TB and MAF spray. Took out one spark plug and it looked fine. Thought that was a good checkpoint for progress before moving to injectors, so I tried to start it again.

This time it ran for at least 30 seconds and a little stronger, as if it might clear up and run better, whereas before you just knew it was about to die the whole 10 seconds it ran.

That may be an indication of bad fuel. I started it within a minute of soaking that MAF and TB, so it could have been running off those solvents. IDK.

But importantly, it ran long enough to throw a new code, p0303, and long enough to swap the 3191 for a 3190. Woohoo!

 

Hmm, the spark plugs don't look horrible. One side of their ceramic cones were burnt a little. I swapped in some known good plugs and it made no difference. Guess I'll swap over the coils next. Pulled the injectors as well. Nothing remarkable, but I sprayed the all down and cleaned everything up. The #3 injector was turned to one side, about the 2 o'clock position, as a result of the wreck. That connector caught the air filter being pushed back. Honestly, those injectors spin a little anyway, but maybe that messed up the top o'ring.

probably swap injectors too.

I'm not real confident this TorquePro app is catching all the codes. It no longer clears them all either - the triangle stays on now although TP says they're no codes. While it's clearing the codes, that triangle will flash every few seconds and a message "problem" will appear at the same time on the display. Anyone know why?

It would appear that my fuel pump and pressure are probably OK based on the fuel being under pressure when I loosed the fuel rail over the injectors. And a visual inspection of the throttle body sensor and motor connectors showed no damage.

Dang, if swapping known parts don't work, I'll be down to my ohmmeter. I hate electrical problems. After that, I guess I'd wonder whether the fuel is bad. How long can fuel sit in a car without going bad?

 

Dang, I'm not finding it. Swapped injectors, coils, spark plugs, cleaned throttle body, checked all the connectors visually. Fuel is under pressure in the fuel rail - I've taken in off twice and it repressurized each time. I've gotten it to run several times for as long as 45secs, so I'm pretty sure I got spark and compression.

Frustrating to not have a code reader I feel confident about, My gut tells me the reason why this car doesn't start is either from sitting up for the last several years (i.e. bad fuel, gunk somewhere) or something caused by the wreck (any of the forward facing sensors/connectors and associated wiring), both of which would usually generate a DTC. I have to assume that TorquePro just might now be catching it.

I just don't want to start pulling the ECU, and back-probing connectors, and trying to make sense out of schematics and dirty wire colors and this voltmeter.

One thing has changed during all this - the ground wire screwed to the radiator support above the passenger headlight broke off its eyelet. It was already a no-start with these same symptoms. None of the symptoms have changed, but it is just barely clipped on. If that's a critical ground, it's probably not good enough. But just being a small gauge wire, I expect it's OK for now.

 

Well, I filled up the tank with new fuel to dilute the couple of gallons of old fuel. I kept starting it over and over, figuring that it might take a few spins to clear the fuel lines of the old gas. It seemed to sputter more smoothly, but never kept running. Came back an hour late and it did start up, and kept running until I turned it off maybe 10 minutes later.

But it was missing badly, just barely running. I let it keep idling thinking it needed to burn some rust off after 3 years without running. And, it did smooth out significantly after several minutes - like maybe it had been running on only 2 cylinders and now it was hitting 3. So, I let it keep running while I checked the inverter pump. It didn't throw a code or triangle while it idled, but It never did smooth out any more, and I also wasn't seeing much progress in it charging up the HV battery, so I put my foot on the brake and put it in gear to see if giving it some pedal did anything. It died and threw the triangle and CEL. Code was back to 3090 but now I got a Cylinder 1 misfire.

Earlier, I'd gotten a Cylinder 3 code; and so, I swapped known-good injectors, plugs and coils around from one of my other cars. I couldn't remember which went where, I didn't do all of them. So I'm thinking this #1 code is just the #3 code followed the bad component to where I moved it. So, I swapped a known-good spark plug and coil in, but that doesn't seem to have helped. I guess I'll try the injectors tomorrow.

Re the inverter pump:

I need to read up on that inspection process. During this repair, the inverter has been off the car, the hoses all drained of coolant. All I've done since then is add more coolant.

I wasn't seeing the inverter coolant rolling through the reservoir while it was idling today. Does it have a thermostat, like an ICE, that maybe hadn't opened up yet? Does it probably have lots of air in the lines, which is what those Schrader valves are for on the front? Do I need to bleed it? I've replaced inverter pumps a couple of times without bleeding afterwards and never had a problem. Should the coolant be rolling even if there's air in the system? I did see it kinda vibrating, like it might start rolling, but that was probably just the engine shaking from the misfires. Does it sound like I need a new pump?

 

OK, made progress. I had swapped in a known-good injector and spark plug and coil from one of my other cars into the cylinder that had thrown the code. And then, over to another cylinder that threw a code after that. Nothing ever changed. My mistake was taking them from a non-running car - it runs, just doesn't have a battery. Which meant I couldn't take the components out of my project car and test them in the known-good car.

So I swapped cars today. Took one of my running vehicles offline to use it to test the parts from my project car, all the parts. So, I first swapped over all the spark plugs and coils. No difference. Good. Then, I swapped over all the injectors. My running car now acted just like the project car - sputtering and dying. I found my culprit.

So, I took the running car's injectors and put them in the project car, and bingo, it runs. Not perfect, but almost. I check it out, and I'm leaking fuel around the injector - I didn't get those installed correctly or tore an o-ring. But, that's OK, I know they problem and will be getting new injectors. Does anyone know if Toyota sells the injector seals separately?

 

OK, I got some used injectors out of an 07 Prius from a pick-you-part yard, and now both cars run fine, except both cars are leaking along the fuel rail. I've taken them on and off several times each. I've replaced torn o-rings and damaged grommets. Nothing has helped.

However, I've done all that with the fuel rail still in place, the fuel line still connected, so that I didn't have to do that extra work. I've done it this way before successfully But not this time, on either car.

Anyone have any tricks? I expect that I just need to break down and disco the fuel line. Not sure if I have that quick-connect tool. Any other way to get it off?

 

Well, not sure what I did right that time, but got my running car to quit leaking and went and got something to eat, lol. Now to stop the other car from leaking, and it's almost ready for the body shop.

 

Arrgh, for whatever reason, one of the injector connectors on my project car quit working. I got the fuel rail leaking stopped, but the #4 connector won't click. I've tested it on other injectors, and they won't click either - it's something about the connector. Nothing appears wrong or broken. I clipping piece is intact and appears to move up and down just fine. It just won't let the injector go in far enough to catch the clip. I poked around inside the clip but didn't find anything. Geezus, nothing is ever easy. Guess I gotta cut a connector off my parts car and splice in into this harness. What a PITA.

But, I'm getting there. If I push down on the connector while it's running, it smooths out and runs perfectly. Let the pressure off and that connector loosens and the engine starts sputtering and dies. That's light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Thanks, and my fault for not following up on this thread. Been traveling.

Pretty sure I got this one fixed. It had some bad injectors - probably from bad fuel/sitting for years. With the diluted new fuel and different injectors, it starts and runs fine.

I still have problems - I haven't been able to get the o-rings to seal in the fuel rail, but I expect to overcome that. Also probably needs an inverter pump - I don't see the coolant moving while it's idling. I haven't run it very long so far. Not sure, since I lost a lot of coolant during this project, if I need to bleed that system to get it flowing again. I'm going to research tonight. Other than that, I just have to get the body work finished and painted.

 

Update: I replaced the inverter pump today just assuming it was the reason the coolant wasn't circulating. It's dark out now, but I still couldn't see the coolant moving. I'll try again in the morning.

Never researched to learn what else could be the cause. I'm thinking it could a wiring/connector issue, the pump isn't getting power, or again, maybe it needs to be bled? Figure that out and a cheap paint job, and the car will be road ready.