1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Panama Canal is bigger

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    wjtracy likes this.
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,321
    3,590
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    That's really something.
    I think we are hoping for more cargo ship traffic to Virginia ports now.
    Sounds like the canal runs on fresh water...one would have thought sea water.
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    It is a heckuva thing, must go see in person. The jungly bits nearby are in good condition too (as such things go), but Panama has not done as much as Costa Rica (for example) in promoting ecotourism.

    In the middle you find Lake Gatun at 26 meters above sea level. What made the idea initially appealing is that one only needs to cut 2 half canals. Version 1 was total loss on on that water, and quite a lot for each lock cycle. The thing was recently operating at 3 or 4 times its initially expected max, so water became an issue. Besides the fact that some years, much less rain falls in Panama (El Nino linked). So, more drainage basins were plugged into the Chagras River basin.

    Version 2 has bigger (bypassing) locks and a degree of water recycling.

    I do not know how this could be achieved by pumping so much seawater uphill. Well I can imagine how, but at an amazing cost.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,373
    15,513
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Panama land bridge is about 6 million years old, so that is the age of barrier. Antarctica has been icy for about 10 million, so sea level did not inundate the land bridge.

    However marine populations have diverged since, land critters (north to south, and south to north) really did some amazing mixing starting 6 mya. And ending with the canal construction.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Seems surprising that low-water operations of (my favorite) canal may continue for 11 more months:

    Panama Canal administrator hopes traffic normalizes by February 2025

    Today I learned that revised operations require 200 million liters of water per ship for complete passage. And that original (total loss) system was 500 million liters.

    Even with this amount of recycling, 2023 continuing drought has been bad. Panama rain is strongly influenced by El Nino. You will read elsewhere that current drought is also climate change, but that might be overstated. Country level rain records are easy to find for 100 years, and 1929, 1941, 1958 and 1977 were drier. Just keepin' it real.
     
  7. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,236
    4,235
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    You could test that hypothesis by looking at the water levels during other El Ninos. If this one is worse than others, that would support the contribution by climate change.
     
  8. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,592
    1,609
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    It doesn’t recover the water at the bottom (that is next to a city that could use the water)

    The increased size requires more water transfer and considering the eternal drought (water levels at the lake have been dropping what 25 years?)
    the number of ships per day is limited by water availability .

    Give it time and the canal might be nothing more than a long dry dock.

    Panama Canal drought causes global disruptions | PBS NewsHour
     
    #8 Rmay635703, Mar 23, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2024
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,317
    10,165
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    One must include the changes in amount of ship traffic demand in the comparison. Traffic growth since the previous drought means a new drought today has greater impact than the same drought a half century ago.
     
    Zythryn likes this.
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,045
    3,528
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Panama canal upgrades cost locals and their investors about USD 5 billions. Even in driest years it will operate (with less traffic). Panama is not large as a water catchment and they 'upped' it as much as possible. If later there is version 3 it can only do more water recycling and require more storage basins. In construction era, the main things were to get big machines into play, and kill less workers by yellow fever and malaria. It was notably successful in those 3. In terms of water supply, they did the best they could.

    ==Next we move to La Nina or neutral for a while, and higher traffic levels. More crimps will come later. Sorry.

    Not sorry.