Pascal's wager

Maybe a little tolerance would help.

I've only been here for 18 months....but I've seen some pretty juvenile and even vile comments directed at a raft of things ranging from people who live in a certain part of the country, to the military (which I'm obviously a member of), to people who vote like I do, drive trucks (which I also do on occasion), or cast my CinC in anything less than a glow of adoration.
AND YET.....I've never been even remotely tempted to run screaming to the mods with tear-stained cheeks. Not once. Ever.

My beliefs and my backside are strong enough to suffer opposing opinions, insults, stupidity, etc.
I also try to be tolerant with those who look, dress, talk and pray a little differently than I do, because when I was a kid, that's how I was taught.

Seems pretty simple to me. It's called common courtesy.....but like common sense, I guess it's rather uncommon in today's world.

 

treb says

infinitesimally tiny, if fact. Far be it from me to burden Christians in their pursuit of heaven after a life of depravity.

 

Warning: bad language and thoughts you probably disagree with

 

I like Daniel, even though I only know him as a virtual person. In my four
years on PC, I have argued with him, made fun of his views, darn near come
to verbal blows, agreed with him at times, and even thanked him for opening
some thread of enquiry that has led to days and weeks of interesting reading
in religion and philosophy.

Daniel acknowledges that he is a difficult person to get along with.
Behind what began as Daniel's introduction of a religious topic there is a
familiar script. It has played out many times before. It stems from
Daniel's admission that he has Asperger Syndrome.

How many of these symptoms of Asperger have you sensed or identified in
Daniel?

Asperger syndrome in adults has some common characteristics such as:
• Lack of managing appropriate social conduct
• High intelligence
• Anger management problems
• Controlling feelings such as depression, fear or anxiety
• Lack of empathy
• Inability to listen to others
• Inflexible thinking
• Repetitive routines provides feelings of security
• Stress when their routine suddenly changes
• Inability to think in abstract ways
• Specialized fields of interest
• Visual thinking
Asperger symptoms in adults

There are reasons why Daniel may be difficult to have an extended
conversation with. But there must also be reasons why others who feel
compelled to join the conversation get so self-righteously unpleasant.

I would suggest that it is a serious case of absolute certainty in their point of
view or beliefs. (No matter how many times a flipped coin has come up
heads; 10 times, 100 times, the odds on the next flip is still 50/50… unless the
game is rigged.) That no more admits to a calm, rational discussion than does
Daniel's Aspergers.

As far as I'm concerned, discussion of religion is like a parlor game. Played by
mature adults it should be both entertaining and educational. But that depends
on the good graces and good faith of the participants.

I can live with religion being either an open topic or a closed one.
But if it's closed, I'll miss it.

 

^ Asperger's is an interesting injection, but I'm not necessarily suprized. That would include the need for a better social interface and not knowing when it's time to give a topic a rest - major factors in threads like this getting nasty. I would not necessarily say it's just Daniel either.

I'll reveal having a moderate level of ADHD. In this wired, multi-tasking society, 60% may behave ADHD at times, when in the strictest sense 7% do in the US. In the past two years, I've tried to deal with it. When I see others in ADHD mode, I cring and think of this is what others have had to put up with from me.

We are all bedeviled with one thing or another, but we just have to try harder to overcome that - we don't have licence to make others put up with our various shortcomings.

This is worth repeating - people skills are critical in a discussion - if you offend greatly, people frequently become too insulted to listen - Daniel has not understood that but he would benefit if he ever does.

 

Thanks Roke, that explains a lot. Our son was diagnosed with Aspe but later was relabeled "Higher-Functioning Autism".

 

I like Daniel, too. I respect his honesty, and I appreciate his intelligence. Having more respect for the truth than for people's feelings is something I find refreshing. Daniel's opinions are usually very well researched, and his knowledge of religion, in particular, is far more extensive than most people's. Common knowledge or not, I think mentioning a mental illness as an explanation for a person's point of view is a low blow.

My apologies, Daniel, if I've said anything incorrectly.

 

^ I'll agree it would have been a lot better if Daniel himself mentioned Asperger's rather than someone else.

I'm afraid it was already obvious Daniel had some kind of issue before the A-word was mentioned - it's just not normal for anyone to drone on like this for years and have poor interpersonal skills on any topic...said that in private to several before tonight.

If you think I or spiderman implied being mental conditions go along with being non-religious, I definitely was not going there. I will say bad people skills regardless if manifested by a condition undermines that person's position by the alienation that follows.

 

Frankly,
It takes -at least- two to tango and this conversation has been contributed to and followed faithfully but several people. I don't think someone being particularly set in their ways, and willing to get up on, or even create, a soap box to express them says anything except that they are a person that will build a soap box if they have to in order to express their views.
Many of us are set in our ways and committed to our views, some of us are better at building soap boxes than others is all.

 

I don't think it's coincidence that more people are being labeled ADHD, autistic, or prone to Asperger. Many socialogists have noted how even though we're in an information age, have many forms of communication, and subscribe to "social networks" we're more depressed and anti-social then ever. I haven't had too many interactions with Daniel, but he seems sincere and honest in his posts: a noble trait that many posters lack. I'm not going to get into any discourse of religion. Mainly because I'm middle of the road with religion and I tend to side with politics for the taboo topic to chew...but topics in religion seem similar in that everyone has their own convictions. Whether we've been labelled as one thing or another, it doesn't diminish the validity of unique points of view.

 

Give it a rest, those people aren't here on Fred's.

 

Quite true, the thief on the cross is a shining example.

 

^ on Daniel's quote above, he is forcing his views on us like the people he probably considers his worst enemy (alluding to Bill Russell's caution of becoming like your worst enemy.)

Good night, folks

 

Wait a minute. if I read this correctly daniel's is refreshing but rokeby's is a low blow?!?!? Nothing personal but explain please? :noidea:

 

• Lack of managing appropriate social conduct
• High intelligence
• Anger management problems
• Controlling feelings such as depression, fear or anxiety
• Lack of empathy
• Inability to listen to others
• Inflexible thinking
• Repetitive routines provides feelings of security
• Stress when their routine suddenly changes
• Inability to think in abstract ways
• Specialized fields of interest
• Visual thinking

This clinical dissection of Daniel's persona on this board is both laughable and repugnant: laughable because Daniel is one of the few on this board who is consistently rational, non-abusive, easy to understand, congenial, always interesting, insightful and has NEVER appeared to me as in any way weird or suffering any kind of mental handicap - and every time he references his own social awkwardness I'm always surprised.

Repugnant because any talk here about how he's "difficut to get along with" and other falsehoods about his manner as if HE'S the one with a problem is virtually always advanced by posters who exhibit these deficiencies themselves. Take that list above, and I can name several posters on this board who always manifest these characteristics:

• Lack of managing appropriate social conduct
• High intelligence
• Anger management problems
• Controlling feelings such as depression, fear or anxiety
• Lack of empathy
• Inability to listen to others
• Inflexible thinking
• Repetitive routines provides feelings of security
• Stress when their routine suddenly changes
• Inability to think in abstract ways
• Specialized fields of interest
• Visual thinking

and so are thus much more in conformance with having a syndrome needing clinical attention than anything evidenced by Daniel's posts.

Some less than observant poster somewhere in this thread said Daniel's trying to "force" his ideas on everbody else. What a delusion! It's a compliment to the lucidity of his discourse that someone would take the power of his reasoning as "forcing" an idea.

If Daniel makes you uncomfortable, well, THAT's the point. To poke our minds out of dead-end ruts and apprehend a larger world. But he doesn't do it by pointing a gun at you.

As to some others on this board, what's that admonition attributed to Jesus: "Cast the beam out of thine own eye ... " Get the chainsaws out because some of those beams are the size of Redwoods.

 

^ so oblivious to the supreme irony of invoking Jesus at the end of your rant while spewing hatred for his followers. You along with Daniel are possessed to do these flamewars for six years or so, again oblivious this is NOT normal....this does not go on at numerous other forums, including automotive ones I'm a part of.

Forget what Rokeby said last night: both you and Daniel droning/ranting for years, yet there was nobody at PC that set you off. Both of you have massive chips on your shoulders, knock them off and scream - it speaks far louder than any post on Asparger's, yet that never phased either of you.

Can't recall of any member being like a Jimmy Swaggart fire-and-brimstone type - you and Daniel would go even more livid if they were, yet you demand we just sit back and put up with you doing the atheistic mirror image of just that. About a year ago, myself and others decided to call this out.

Reasoning does not seem to work with you however, so just continue with the agenda that consumes you. You are no different on the religion topic than DrBermann was on the political topic - I hope you accomplish the same thing and make the public forums a better place.

 

I really think it's unkind to turn this thread into a discussion about a specific persons *alleged* diagnosis!

Did Daniel bring this up and invite input?

What goes through my mind is how hurt I would feel if people stopped talking about the subject at hand in a thread I started that had a clear subject, and started to argue about what they thought was wrong with me instead.

If you don't want to talk about the debate here started by Daniel about Pascals wager then don't. If you want to diagnose someone with a disorder, please go to medical school and at least meet the person first.

*end rant

 

Even though that specific person has repeatedly disparaged the cognitive abilities and openly speculated about what's mentally deficient in people who simply have a different Point Of View upon a subject?

Seriously?

Please! :glare:

 

Rokeby made a few uncomfortable, that was his point, in daniel it's laudable in rokeby it's repugnant? How is that rational? How is it rational that daniel take an entire group of people and lump them into one category based upon the actions of a few?

As to "some others on this board" none of them are ranting and raving over the actions, cognitive abilities or lumping all atheist into one category in order to disparage the entire lot as you and daniel do on a regular basis over the years to Christians. You want repugnant look in the mirror.

BTW: I see all those attributes in daniel and he's confessed to many of them on this board. Your view is a bit myopic and biased.