1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Passive Home Cooling

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by SageBrush, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I am fortunate to live in a dry, high desert climate that lends itself to cooling the home at night with ventilation by wind and fan. I have spent a lot of time trying to optimize night time cooling while decreasing heat gain during the day. It is an ongoing effort. I still leave windows partially open during the day for air quality, although only on the side of the house opposite wind direction as a klunky way to have adequate air exchange during the day but no more than needed since the outside air is hot.

    June has been hotter than usual during the day, but nights reach nadirs of low 60s F. To my annoyment, the wind picks up in late afternoon and pretty much dies at night. The house has reached a pattern of sorts for now, that is plotted below:

    Passive Home Cooling.png

    The in-house temperature rise duing the day interests me the most. Even though the temperature gradient between in-house and outside rises as the day wears on, the temperature increase rate is greatest in the AM hours. I think two factors are at play:

    First, the house temp as opposed to the in-home air temperature is likely hotter, and my first few hours of the day are an equilibrium asserting itself. The thermostat may measure 71, but the house is actually 2-3 degrees hotter. Median outside temperature is about the same as median in-house air. I really think I should be able to improve the median in-house air temp to at least 3 degrees lower although I'll declare success at 5 degrees. After all, I supplement cooling at night with fans and tinker with the windows!

    Second, most of the sunshine that enters the house is during the hours from 7 - noon. I have no idea how to convert the heat entering as sunshine into temperature since it depends on the heat capacity of the house, but every bit matters and the areas where I still have too much sunlight are in queue to be blocked.

    Advice and anecdotal experience welcome!
     
  2. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,563
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I've got a three storey home that lends itself quite nicely to the 'old prairie trick' of opening up the house at night, and closing it during the heat of the day. The chimney effect also works well, and the double-hung windows are great for controlling airflow.

    I find the house stays considerably cooler in the heat of Summer when I'm up early to let in the cool morning air. When the weather's the hottest, all the windows and doors are closed for the afternoon hours, and opened again in the cool of the evening. I find the house stays cooler by keeping the warm air out, although there's quite a temperature difference between floors.

    Shade also makes a huge difference, both external to the house, in the form of trees, and internal, in the form of curtains and blinds. Any type of thermal mass will absorb heat during the day and release it at night, so letting the sun shine on your tile floor all day will of course only make it hotter. Getting that mass to soak up the heat from the house instead will make the air temperature cooler, and it feels great to walk on cool tile in bare feet.
     
    SageBrush likes this.
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Hyo :)

    Have you succeeded in dropping the houses air median temperature below outside ambient ? An average of (low+high)/2 is a pretty good appoximation.

    I have tried closing doors and windows during the day but the house gets stuffy and humid quickly. I find I prefer warmer with some airflow and more pleasant air quality. Do you have a trick I am missing ?
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,563
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hi SageBrush. :)

    I haven't recorded any measurements, nor even taken any temperatures, so the scientific aspect of my efforts is a complete bust. Around here, there are only a couple of months at best where there's any such thing as 'too hot', and even then, it's a relative term. (Some members of the family are more willing than others to adjust their own temperature through clothing choices.) Still, it's amazing what can be achieved simply by opening and closing windows at the right time.

    It gets stuffy, but we're used to that for about half the year anyway, when it's too cold to leave the windows open, so a few hours on any given day isn't a hardship in comparison. I love the first warm days of Spring when we can finally air the place out, and am always reluctant to turn the heat back on in the Fall. So, maybe the 'trick' is simply putting up with it, though of course the climates of Vancouver and New Mexico are quite different.
     
  5. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    3,779
    1,282
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Can a electric fan on one of the windows pointing outside help draw the wind through the home?
     
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Exactly that is done. I used to have an industrial fan that created quite a bit more airflow, but it is awfully loud. I'll probably buy another for july/august, albeit with quite a few reservations.
     
    JMD likes this.
  7. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,563
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I've found an electric fan helpful in blowing cool air into a room at floor level, thereby pushing the warmer air out, but on a whole-house basis, the air seems to move through well enough on its own. With the top part of the upper windows lowered, and the basement door open, the breeze is strong enough that we have to block open an internal door or two.
     
  8. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    3,779
    1,282
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    There are quiet fans, they are a little more money.

    The other option is get central A/C but get a LEED certified solar to offset the energy costs.

    LEED | U.S. Green Building Council
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Do tell!
     
  10. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    3,779
    1,282
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four

    In HVAC they call it SEER rating. I only know this cause I installed the AC unit on my home a few years ago. The home was plumbed for AC when it was built in 2000. Finally installed the unit. It's cool by the beach so AC is not that necessary except a few times a year. Some units are more expensive up front but more efficient to operate. The catch is some units are very quiet other loud. If you go to Lowes just ask for a quiet fan. That may be the least expensive start

    I was hoping you were interested in the central AC and install energy efficient windows, insulating and solar project. The LEED web site is informative. I may be worth while to have a consultant review your home and make a professional recommendation.

    It may e as simple as a shade tree to block direct sun light on the home to something more complex.

    Again I'm not an expert just read a little hear and there
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    SEER is an efficiency rating for heat transfer -- COP adjusted for 4 seasons, if you will.
    Fan efficiency is pretty much dependent on a decent motor, although I keep hoping that blade design aero technology will make it into residential fans LOL.
     
    JMD likes this.
  12. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    3,779
    1,282
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Definitely quiet fans out there for residential purposes.

    Why not get Central AC?
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I only recently dropped my house electricity consumption below 100 kWh a month. Here I wish to stay.
     
  14. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    3,779
    1,282
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    AC is very efficient now a days. Specifically not sure if you can meet your guidelines.

    Many years ago before I was married and purchased a house I rented an apartment. I got 2 window AC units. They are very reasonable and not much elec to run them. One small unit in the bedroom and a larger unit in the living room. Cooled the house when I needed it. Use your current system but if you need the extra cooling you got the window units. When you get older you want to protect yourself from heat stroke. Nice to have the units there just flip the on switch.

    Here is an example

    Window A/C Unit Install at Lowe's

    Thoughts?
     
  15. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    If I was only 1/10th as stubborn, I would balk at AC. Flipping a switch for comfort annoys me. ;)
     
  16. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    3,779
    1,282
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Your Like me. I waited 5 years or more before I got the AC installed. We had a heat wave over 100 degrees for a week. My wife put the screws to me about being penny wise and pound foolish. Ordered the AC that year. The Elec bill went up less than $10 a month if that. It's there if we need it. Comfort is priceless.

    What's your comfort worth? You should at least have a cool room for health reasons. I can say it does clean out the pollen. Helps with the allergies.
     
  17. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    1,168
    598
    1
    Location:
    Slovenia
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    What is humidity level? If the place is very dry (desert), then 80° F can be very comfortable.

    A heavy brick, concrete or other type of wall can accumulate a lot of energy and heat from one side of the wall to come to the other side can take up to 12 hours. The walls cool from both sides during the night and heats considerably more from the outside during a day. Heat from the inside (cooking, fresh air ...) is also not that small factor.

    The night is probably too short to cool the walls completely to the outside temperature, so the moment you close the house the temperature will go up faster than you would think and will reach or go above the wall temp.

    Buy a cheap IR temperature meter and measure temperature of the walls from the inside, you may find a spot that heats up faster than others, maybe you can improve that spot.

    What is the structure of the wall? When you write "passive home" in my area means a house with 30 cm of light insulation and verry thin walls, those houses don't do very good in hot climate, but they need little to no energy in the winter freezing temps.
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Quite so. If June was my hottest month I'd be very happy, but July and August are some 5 degrees warmer. LOL
     
  19. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    3,779
    1,282
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Window AC in the Living Room and Bedroom. New units are very efficient. Time to be comfortable. :)



    image.jpg image.jpg
     
  20. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,497
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Hey Sage.
    Did you once use forced air cooling? Are there existing ducts?
    Also, if you don't mind, can you tell us more about your house? I haven't seen anything about a basement. Are there central hallways? Would it be worth it to you to put in transoms above some of the doors?

    One thing that doesn't come up very often around here is that I work in the industrial building automation industry: think HVAC for skyscrapers, college campuses, and hospitals, to name a few. But the concepts of heat transfer and human comfort apply at almost any scale. Being environmentally-bent and looking to minimize overall carbon footprints, I like to focus on non-mechanical comfort efforts. To this end, I applaud your efforts.

    Let's make sure we focus on the basic concept that "one does not make cold insomuch as one removes ambient heat." You have to transfer the existing heat to another medium: pump in a cold fluid through a pipe to absorb and pull out heat, let ice melt which absorbs heat and becomes water, or simply supply cold air to achieve an equilibrium. Without mechanical means to re-chill the fluid in the pipe or re-freeze the ice, you cannot lower the temp in your house to below outside temps; you have no means to trap the heat and move to somewhere else (preferably outside where it belongs). The best you can do is to vent the heat at night (which you are doing) and avoid the heat during the day (7:00 - Noon).

    My advice is to look at homes in the East and in the South-East. The older homes were built prior to mechanical HVAC and incorporate the best strategies in air movement.