Plugin Conversion Options?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by cproaudio, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    It's my understanding that the current is restricted for more than just battery lifespan (DTC codes, heat, etc).

    Anyway, more cells does not necessarily mean more current--according to the manufacturers website those cells are only capable of 40A sustained draw (for one 20Ahr module--assume four in parallel and that's barely more than what the Mottcells are rated for) and not the 60A sustained draw per cell mentioned on Enginer's website. Who knows?

    I do know that the new cells are pretty blasted cheap (I found a post online quoting somewhere around $0.50 a watt-hour in very small quantities--I assume they buy them by the pallet thus they probably get close to $0.20 a watt-hour, couple that with dirt cheap assembly / parts & labor it suddenly makes sense why the system is able to be sold for such prices).

    Maybe someday I'll analyze one...

    Andrew
     
  2. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    I couldn't see any specs or a manufacturer for the battery, where abouts on the site is that?

    If nominal voltage is 3.7 and system voltage is now 55.5, that suggests 15 subpacks in series. 74whr a cell then means 4 parallel cells per subpack, total capacity of 4,440whr. 4*40A=160A per subpack,*55.5V=8.8KW

    Wish there was a bit more info on the site!
     
  3. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Nominal voltage is still going to be 3.2v per cell since we're still dealing with LiFEPO4 here and energy capacity is going to end up being the same. The 55.5v limit referred to is an internal limit they changed with their charger to prevent overcharging the batteries and doesn't tell you anything about the batteries being used (except that they can go up to at least 3.8v at absolute maximum charge). It's really just a different packaging for the same capacity system (similar size and weight from what I can tell)--if I had to guesstimate I would say they switched for quality issues or cost issues. In theory they should be able to squeeze a bit more current out but that's not based on any testing and is simply taking the manufacturers word for it (and I've learned that's never a good idea :)).

    Oh, and nominal voltage doesn't account for voltage sag due to increased current--thus it wouldn't be appropriate to take 3.2v and multiply by 160 to get total expected system output as that doesn't take into account power loss. The unknown factor is internal resistance (and I have yet to find a single battery manufacturer that gives you the real internal resistance on their specs--it's always exaggerated).

    Keep in mind, as current goes up the amount of energy that gets burned off as heat goes up as well thus your total range will decrease. Increased current draw can also reduce battery life as manufacturers will typically calculate total cycle life at 1C discharge.

    Andrew
     
  4. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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  5. DumbMike

    DumbMike Active Member

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    I will say that this all went way above my head. So I hope my questions are relevant.

    I this something that can be done to any Prius car?

    If so, is it some contraption that I can just plug into a standard 110 volt outlet and somehow plug it into my Prius?

    It sounds like something to get better MPH. The $2500 or so is one thing. But if I can get another 50% of gas milage without messing up the environment too much, the "bragging" factor might be enough to make me pay the additional money.

    Sorry to lower the level of education necessary to understand the thread.

    Dumb Mike
     
  6. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    God you sound like Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer. I know your SN is DumbMike but you're not that dumb. You bought a Prius. You found this forum. Anyway, yeah, it's some kind of contraption that you can plug into a standard 110 volt outlet and get another 50% increase in gas mileage without messing up the environment too much. It's the cheapest one on the market that'll work with almost any hybrid on the market.
     
  7. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    And if their connections/cabling has been simplified then adding additional packs after installation might be nice and easy, too...
     
  8. DumbMike

    DumbMike Active Member

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    Thanks for the info. I'll have to read a lot more about this. It wasn't something I heard about until I read this thread.

    Sorry, but (a) I had no idea what all of those acronyms meant in the previous posts and (b) I had to bring it all down to my level (or simply ignore it).

    OK, I'm an unfrozen caveman lawyer. I'll take that for now because I (obviously) know very little about my Prius. I didn't want to overstate my knowledge level in my screenname.

    Dumb Mike
     
  9. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    There are 2 major mods you can do to the Prius's electrical system. 1, Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) conversion. This mod places a powerful battery in the storage area and hooks to a charger. You plug it into the wall to charge it up. When it's done, the extra power in the added battery pack allows you to drive your Prius in an electric only mode for up to 20 miles instead of the Prius' original batteries capacity of 1.5 miles thus giving you over 100mpg for the first 20 miles. After that the mileage will gradually drop down. And 2, the lesser known mod of Vehicle To Grid (V2G) This mod allows you to use your Prius as a power plant to power your house in-case of a power outage. This is only possible in a Toyota HSD system due it's ability to shut the engine off when the battery is full and start the engine to charge the battery should it drops belows a safe voltage.
    As you can see the Prius can work both ways, taking power from the grid to improve mileage or supply power to the grid in-case there's a power outage.
     
  10. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Sigh....Another delay. Oct 4th came and gone. batteries are here but the electronic components are not.
     
  11. Superdrol

    Superdrol Member

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    Due to the problem with cost and battery capabilities, at some point the technology will improve to get better mileage with the same amount of battery. That is really the hang up is that the distance does not go far enough and the costs are excessively high.


    Again mobile cell phones and televisions have better output and smaller. I don't doubt as times continues this concept will improve.


    Also I prefer this type of technology vs. alternate energy. Someone was telling me about natural gas, etc, etc and while there is a massive glut of natural gas in the US, there are infrastructure restrictions, etc, etc.


    With the technology solely relying on the vehicle itself, you can drive the thing to any tiny town and still fill up with the same gasoline.
     
  12. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I've been waiting patiently for the Enginer kit since July. I was told new kits will come at the end of August. August came and gone. When I asked again I was told end of September. At the end of September, I was told new kits will be ready for pick on October 4th. I emailed him on October 4th regarding the kit. He emailed back saying the batteries are here but the components are still on order. On Oct 9th, I talked to Jack Chan at Green Drive Expo regarding availability of new kits. Now he tells me end of October. 2012 Prius PHEV is getting closer and closer of being released and it's looking better and better everyday. Anyone heard anything please let me know. Thanks
     
  13. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    Over on the Enginer forum there's been some pics of the new kits, so i think at least some have been delivered.

    It is taking an awfully long time, and the communication has been poor. If they want to survive long term they need to look at their customer services just as much as they are the product development. Hearing that jack is at some expo hawking more kits is great, (i want the company to survive long enough to honour their warranty), but they need to keep their waiting customers informed.
     
  14. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Just got an email from Jack that the kits are ready to be picked up at their LA warehouse next weekend.
     
  15. P3now

    P3now New Member

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    Andrew

    you mentioned: „(though rumor has it that if you start stacking up the converters you start throwing codes while driving)“ .
    Are there any more informations on this meanwhile? Does the GenIII-system do any deratings or shut downs? - this would exclude any parallel battery solution ( like calcars/eaa-phev.org) because of the higher currents than the Enginer converter ?
     
  16. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Chan has run 2 converters in a Gen3 with no problems. Do a search for posts by Banshee08

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
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  17. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Gen III can take more unaccounted charges than Gen II. Banshee was running 2 3K converters. Gen III could probably take 2 5K converters without throwing codes.
    Damn, I still haven't installed mine yet.
     
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