Featured Poised for Performance: 2023 Toyota Prius Prime Revealed | 50% increased EV range, 220 HP

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Danny, Nov 16, 2022.

  1. Hidyho

    Hidyho Senior Member

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    Improvement, but not really IMO, needed more EV range, a lot more, more hight in front because of scraping, infotainment screen should have tilt adjustment for glare, passenger seat should have power adjustment, dual AC control, and HUD should have remained, Prius isn't cheap and it offers no tax incentive as is.
     
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  2. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    1" lower hip point doesn't necessarily mean 1" lower to the ground - the rumored dimensions from Japan actually had slightly more ground clearance.

    Note that it's also a taller tire, not just a bigger wheel. (Essentially it's the same tire diameter as a Camry instead of a Corolla.) This means you still have a decent amount of sidewall and tire volume - slightly more sidewall than, and similar tire volume to, the Gen 4's 17" option. (And, similarly, the 17" option has slightly less sidewall than, and similar tire volume to, the Gen 4's 15" option.)

    And, a trend that automakers have been trying to make happen for a while is tall and skinny tires, for efficiency reasons. The bigger the tire is (in width, diameter, or sidewall height), the lower the rolling resistance, as a very general rule.

    Sidewall height is the easiest - makes no changes to the aerodynamics, reduces weight, reduces rolling resistance - but has styling issues (modern styling preferences are for a smaller percentage of sidewall height to wheel diameter) although those can partially be overcome by increasing both tire and wheel diameter (so, the 195/65R15s on the Gen 4 were 40% sidewall, the rumored 195/60R17s on the Gen 5s with only slightly less sidewall are 35% sidewall). There's also some handling issues, especially with low rolling resistance tires with more supple sidewalls - more sidewall means more tire flex before steering input translates to movement in the car.

    Making the tire wider generally improves both rolling resistance and (mostly indirectly, believe it or not) dry handling, but there's some drawbacks there. A wider tire tends to perform worse in wet, and to a point, snowy conditions, as ground pressure is generally reduced. Additionally, a wider tire increases your frontal area (both of the tire, and of the rest of the car surrounding the tire, if you have to make the car wider to accommodate the tire - all of the benefit from reduced rolling resistance that you got at low to moderate speed is more than lost at high speed due to the increased aero drag, as rolling resistance increases with velocity linearly, where aero drag increases with velocity squared. And, of course, it also makes the tire and wheel heavier.

    (Also, wider tires improving handling is more from the wider tread being able to dissipate heat better - and building less of it in the tire carcass in the first place due to reduced rolling resistance - and therefore a softer compound being suitable for a given load rating and tire wear expectation, and less from what you'd think about the wider tread having more friction.)

    Making the tire taller, on the other hand... so you still have the drawback of a heavier tire and wheel. However, in modern cars with high hoods and high beltlines due to modern pedestrian and side impact safety standards, a taller tire doesn't impact aerodynamics, so all of the gains you got from reducing rolling resistance are maintained at high speed. (It does require a longer wheelbase and more overall length, all else being equal, to maintain passenger and cargo space. Worth noting that the Gen 5's new tires are somewhere around 30-50 mm taller, and the Gen 5 has a 50 mm longer wheelbase and ~30 mm longer body than the Gen 4 (although ~50 mm shorter than the Gen 4 Prime).) In fact, I'd expect the efficiency penalty from the 19" wheel package, as it's 195 mm wide, to be less than the efficiency penalty of the 215 mm wide 17" wheel package on the Gen 4. (And, of course, you get to maintain similar sidewall heights to the Gen 4 while looking visually more proportionate to modern tastes.)
     
    #42 bhtooefr, Nov 18, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
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  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Range Rover, model S & X, & who knows what other manufacturers - have air adjustable suspension/height. If the Prius were to do that - tho it's a costly mod, it would belay fears of scraping steep driveways, potholes, dips in the road & such. Tesla adjustable height even allows you to geo locate suspension variables so you only have to do the adjustment one time - than the car memorizes it. Sure makes getting in and out of the car easier if it's a couple/few inches taller.
     
  4. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    Also hard to drive over dead road kill and not redistribute it.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

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    I've seen that mentioned a couple of times. You're saying ground clearance is one inch less? Where is that coming from?
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    As far as I can find, no where.

    "Compared to the previous generation Prius Prime, it’s 2-inches lower, 1-inch wider, 1-inch longer length, and with a hip point that’s almost 1-inch lower."

    2 inches lower is 2 inches *shorter*. No mention of ground clearance.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    People are equating car height with ground clearance, and panicking themselves.

    Ground clearance was not one of the specs released with the initial reveal. Perhaps it is lower to achieve the lower height. Perhaps it isn't changed or higher. I was more concerned with loss of headroom with the lower height. Much of the scraping issues in cars is also a factor of overhang; car length past the wheels.

    Aerodynamics is a factor in efficiency. A lower car lessens its impact. Posts are already disappointed with the rumored mpg rating. Well, If the car stayed the same height, that would be lower.

    Yes adjustable suspension is expensive. Why its on higher end cars. It is also expensive the fix when it breaks.

    Agree lower seats can be a pain to get into. Toyota will happily sell you a SUV, or maybe their new lifted sedan, the Crown.

    Prius sales have been on a downward trajectory for sometime. Higher gas prices aren't going to help as much as in the past as there are more hybrid and EV options in competition. The model needed an image and role overall in order to continue being something Toyota even offers.
    People are subtracting the 1 inch lower hip point from the 2 inch lower height statements. Totally ignoring the space between their head and roof where the space likely came from.
     
  8. GregersonIT

    GregersonIT Member

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    Except it doesn't average 60 with ease like the prime does.
     
  9. prius16

    prius16 Active Member

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    Note that all of the info, and the cars shown, are with regards to the Gen5 Prius Prototypes.
    Minor changes will happen. Although, at this point, changing the height is extremely unlikely.

    Starting around 6mins, Modellista does a number of clearance measurements, with one of their body kits installed on a Gen5 Prototype.
    Typically, a Modellista body kit doesn't reduce the ground clearance by "too much". It's mainly for styling.

    Code:
    https://youtu.be/Uo8hterB7W4?t=357
    【新型プリウス】MODELLISTAエアロパーツのご紹介
    [New Prius] Introduction of MODELLISTA aero parts
    


    .
     
    #49 prius16, Nov 18, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  10. GregersonIT

    GregersonIT Member

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    Honestly the Door opening size was already almost big enough for me. Plus, I'm not sold on the boy racer look. Further more to lower it means I'm looking for something different for when my 2020 prime bites the dust in 4 years. I'm expecting 400k out of it, already have 142k.
     
  11. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Wow...I have 55k on my 2017.
     
  12. GregersonIT

    GregersonIT Member

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    Serious commuter here, I put 3500-5000 a month on mine.
     
  13. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I believe the ground clearance on the new Prime is 5.3 inches as reported by bestcarweb.jp when they gave out dimensions. This is the same as the current AWD Prius. The current Prius Prime ground clearance is 4.8 inches. They improved TNGA-C to accommodate both the HEV and PHEV so it makes sense the ground clearance is the same across all trims.
     
  14. toronado455

    toronado455 Member

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    Toyota might as well have made it a two-door. The new styling is really coupe-like. The driver's seat seems to have been pushed back behind the B-pillar. Entry/exit might be a bit easier with two large front doors. Or maybe two large front doors plus two rear-hinged small rear doors like on the Mazda RX-8.

    19" wheels are just more of the same thing. They are moving away from practicality on this redesign.
     
  15. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    I think the LE trims are for the pure hybrid, and the SE for the plug-in...maybe?

    BTW: the Toyota USA website is not listing the new Prius anywhere where one would look for it, e.g., upcoming vehicles. And look at the HP of the Corolla Cross-over.... 19... ;)
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Sounds right with Toyota marketing the plug in as the sportier model.
     
  17. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    I have 64K on my 2017.
     
  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Not a good set of color choices. :(

    I guess I will go with guardian gray, which is a new, unique color and trendy among sports cars such as Kia Stinger these days. I don't want to go back to red or silver. Black is too dark. White is too light. Blue is absent.

    The solar roof would increase the range by a mile; so, I guess I will get the XSE Premium with the optional solar roof. :)

    Perhaps hold off until model year 2024 so that bugs are fixed and factory rebates and incentives come back?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #58 Gokhan, Nov 19, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  19. prius16

    prius16 Active Member

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    (y)
     
  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It looks like the 2023 Prius Prime won't be sold until around July 2023, and chances are that the 2024 Prius Prime will follow a couple of months later around September 2023.

    I am "poised" ;) to trade in for a 2023/2024 guardian-gray Prius Prime XSE Premium + the solar panel/panoramic-view monitor/digital rear-view mirror/etc. package. We will see if that will become a reality. :)

    I like the new safety features in the 2023 Prius Prime a lot. Improved looks and increased power are plusses.
     
    #60 Gokhan, Nov 19, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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