Featured Poised for Performance: 2023 Toyota Prius Prime Revealed | 50% increased EV range, 220 HP

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Danny, Nov 16, 2022.

  1. Downrange

    Downrange Member

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    I generally am positive about the new models, especially the Prime. The extra EV range, especially. Here are my concerns:

    1. The new 2L Engine. Will it achieve the same reliability as the most recent Atkinson cycle engine (fixed the head gasket issue)?

    2. They have certainly reduced headroom for the tallest drivers. I'm 6'5" and have enjoyed great headroom on all three Priuses I've owned. This one I have doubt about that.

    3. I like having the 12V battery up front. If it's in the back, that's a small detractor.

    That said, still positive, although it may be awhile before I consider trading, as I'm so happy with my 22 Prime.
     
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  2. Aegean

    Aegean Active Member

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    I can’t wait to rent and drive the 2023 Prius prime for a week. On paper it appears that Toyota collected all the stereotypes that people were whining about the Prius and addressed them. Is this the best new car for 2023? Possibly. I would consider this a a better choice than the unreliable new electric cars. The only concern is that recent Prius sales are just average and I am not sure that buyers would rush into dealerships to buy a Prius.

    I just want to spend some time with it and decide.
     
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  3. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    Regarding the solar roof: more than to charge the car (IMHO a side effect of having more electricity to run the fan) it is there to keep the cabin cool(er), and hence, indirectly extend range. When you leave your parking spot you don't have to cool the cabin so much.
    My Prime once zapped almost 20% of the battery in EV mode because I didn't take the time to properly vent and cool down the cabin with ambient air before moving the car (30C is far less than 80C reached in the cabin...).

    And I think that it is also a bit of a marketing stunt ("we're eco-friendly harnessing the energy of the sun!" :D ). Like the EV mode button on the regular Prius. If solar panels helped a lot with range and overall performance, it would be in all HV/PHV/EVs out there. None of them really do and only the "eco-friendly" Prius has ever offered them, and in some markets/configurations only. Not even the Prius Eco ever got it, so it clearly doesn't offer much in terms of overall energy efficiency. And $$$. I wonder how many hundreds of miles you have to drive with the extra charge from the solar panel to offset the cost of the extra option.
     
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The gen3 had a solar driven fan for venting the cabin when parked. Other cars have had such as part of a Summer package. That only needs a small PV panel.

    The Prius Prime got a solar roof because access to home charging in Japan isn't as widespread. It is also why CHAdeMO is standard on the car there. Combined with higher energy prices, a PV roof could be worth the cost. In the US the price for it on the new model will likely not be worth it. Even if it has a price cut from $3000 it was in Japan.

    Cost is why it's rarely seen. Being on a car has the panels at a less than ideal position for operation. So you need them everywhere, more efficient ones, or both in order for them to measurably contribute. That adds cost, so if you are going to do it, best design for an efficient EV to get the most out of the energy it can get from the sun. Which is the case with the Lightyear and Aptera.
     
  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    The last ~ 1-m² Prius solar-roof package was 180 W and cost around $500. Hopefully, they will increase the power to more than 250 W using higher-efficiency photovoltaic cells, while still keeping the cost around $500. It will extend the range by a mile or two during regular driving and a lot more if the car is parked under the sun. It is also a great option for those who don't know how to maintain their 12-V battery. ;)

    If this information is accurate, the new solar roof will be ~ 280 W:

    https://electrek.co/2019/07/05/toyota-solar-electric-car/

    It will probably be sold only as part of the XSE Premium advanced-technology package with panoramic-view monitor, digital rear-view mirror, etc. that are other handy options, which will probably add around $2,000 to the cost of the XSE Premium. I will get the XSE Premium with the advanced-technology package—in guardian gray! :)
     
    #65 Gokhan, Nov 19, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
  6. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Seems Toyota has a design language for their cars and now it's just consistent. The only 2023 cars that have a rear wiper are those with a full spoiler over the rear window. The 2022 Prius kind of sticks out among cars as having a rear wiper but no spoiler over the rear window. Going forward you'll probably see more of the same. Here's the full list:
    • 2022 Avalon (including Hybrid) - No
    • 2023 Camry (including Hybrid) - No
    • 2023 Crown - No
    • 2023 Corolla (including Hybrid) - No
    • 2023 Corolla Hatchback - Yes
    • 2023 GR Corolla - Yes
    • 2022 Mirai - No
    • 2023 GR86 - No
    • 2023 GR Supra - No
    • 2023 Prius - No
    • 2023 Prius Prime - No
    • 2022 Prius Prime - No
    • 2022 Prius - Yes
    And the design language looks somewhat similar with their SUVs:
    • 2023 Highlander (including Hybrid) - Yes
    • 2023 Venza - Yes
    • 2023 RAV4 (including Hybrid) - Yes
    • 2022 Corolla Cross - Yes
    • 2022 C-HR - Yes
    • 2023 Sequoia - Yes
    • 2023 bZ4X - No (has only a partial spoiler)
    • 2023 4Runner - No (rear window rolls down)
     
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  7. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket Member

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    Pretty much how I feel. My car currently has 170k km. I'll be ready for the new one.

    Make mine red again!
     
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  8. Terrell

    Terrell Old-Timer

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    With heavy snow, I don't think I would buy a car without a back wiper. It's also been very much needed when driving dirt roads, coupled with the rear washer.

    I only have 116K on my 2010, so it likely will be around for quite some time yet.

    Why? What advantage is it to have the 12V battery under the hood, where it gets all crudded up, instead of in the back, where it stays nice and clean? And you can easily add things to it.
     
    #68 Terrell, Nov 19, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2022
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  9. Terrell

    Terrell Old-Timer

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    What does the area look like with the rear hatch open? After watching several videos, it's not too clear whether the back seats fold down flat with the back storage area. In Gen 3, they do. Which means you can sleep there (camping), plus it's easy to slide/stuff large items in. I saw one video where it looks like there's quite a difference (a couple of inches?) in the back area and the folded rear seats. Ugh.

    And is there some sort of stiff attached cover? Attached to the rear hatch? If so, is it easily removable when transporting large items? On the Gen 3, it's on a roller. So you don't have to try to stow the cover somewhere, it just rolls up. And the whole thing easily pops out. So when camping, I have the roller cover closed while driving, to hide my stuff, and at night, I roll it up, pop it out, and store it in the driver's seat, so I can sleep in the back.
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The dirty window in experience is only a real problem in cars with a less aerodynamic rear. The turbulence ends up depositing more crud back there. As long as you clear the rear window before turning on the defroster, most hasn't been a problem for me in sedans.

    Having the wiper is still nice. It does add weight, increases drag, and a bit of cost.
    I think you found the 12V thread, but batteries that are in the passenger space need to be vented. That adds to the replacement price on top of the uncommon size seen in Prii.
    Someone mentioned there the cargo floor was maybe an inch lower than the hatch threshold.

    I didn't notice any tonneau covers in the shots I've seen. These cars are very likely preproduction prototypes; ones made to make sure everything fits together right, and for certification testing. They might not even have floor mats yet.
     
  11. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    It also stays cooler down low in the back, so should last a lot longer, other things being equal.
     
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  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The video showed the lightweight tonneau cover.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Is that the one that folds up?
     
  14. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Also it's a bit more complicated than "a less aerodynamic rear" anyway. Essentially, if you have a vertical or near-vertical rear, road grime is gonna be sucked up in the wake and adhere to that, and you need a wiper and washer to clear it, as in most squareback hatchbacks (the Prius being a fastback hatchback). Sedans almost never have rear wipers, both because of the logistics of having a wiper attached there, and they just don't need it as much - road grime will cover the rear, but there's a rear deck separating the rear window from the rear.

    The Prius has largely been an exception because there's situations where the rear wiper is useful even if it's not necessary, and it's not difficult to have one, unlike with sedans.

    The list @drash made actually illustrates this - with the exception of the 2022 Prius and 4Runner, every vehicle with a rear deck has no wiper (the 2022 Prius being the exception), every vehicle without one has a wiper (the 4Runner having an exception due to its retractable rear window making a wiper harder to do). And, spoilers above the rear window reduce drag coefficient of a squareback, but they also trap more of the turbulent air at the rear, making a wiper more critical. (The bZ4X is a bit of a special case, as it has a tiny second spoiler below the rear window - could've even been installed specifically to avoid needing a wiper - and the rear window is angled pretty far, so it may actually not need one.)
     
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  15. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Interesting. It appears only vehicles with vertical planes of rear glass like our Sienna hybrid get to keep the wiper. IMO, these designs do need it more than cam-back (prius) or more horizontal sloped windows due to aerodynamics. Heck, the Sienna also has a washer for the DRM's (digital rear view mirror) rear camera.

    Our Prime rear glass is a PITA to keep clean. Since a wiper can't be retrofitted due to the special glass as an option/accessory, it should come with a DRM standard. IMO
     
  16. 00PowderSpecial

    00PowderSpecial New Member

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    ceramic coat the glass and be done. I haven’t used the wiper on my highlander in years.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Grok the the distance of the trunk deck playing a part in back side dirtiness. I don't recall that deck getting near as dirty as the vertical rear. Airflow coming down from the roof tends to keep grime kick up away, and this will likely happen with the Prius rear glass, which is mostly the case now.

    Of course, using less gas means less visits to a station with a handy squeegee. Maybe the gen5 will have a smaller fuel tank to compensate.
    What was the reasoning behind not allowing the rear camera to be used outside of reverse for most cars? Is the DRM a different field of view from the back up?
     
  18. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yeah, two cameras. DRM cam is higher quality and better angle of view. The Sienna reverse cam quality is pretty low. I think the Gen2 prius may be even better. LOL
     
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  19. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    I never found the rear wiper on my previous Gen4 2017 Prius HV and my Gen3. Reason being, that the view in the rearview from the upper half of the hatch is so small, that clean or not it doesn't add much.
    I usually was glad to have the lower portion of the hatch - that, though, got even more dirty than the upper half.

    In the current Prime, I never felt the absence of a rear wiper. Granted I live in a place where it "never" rains and my car is inside the garage when it snows. But for some reason on this Prime, I feel the view of the back through my rear view mirror is still "ok-ish", but not as bad as with the other two Prii I have had. Maybe I have just gotten used to not see a thing in the rearview mirror...
     
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  20. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I've had my Prime rear window and side mirrors completely cake up with snow in minutes even with the rear defroster on, which also heats the side mirrors. This means I couldn't see behind me at all.
     
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