POLL: Which of these fuel-efficiency improvements do you expect to see in the Gen IV?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by breakfast, Jun 5, 2015.

?
  1. Automatic grill shutters

    20 vote(s)
    60.6%
  2. 40% or greater ICE thermal efficiency (as reported already)

    26 vote(s)
    78.8%
  3. Direct Injection for the ICE

    10 vote(s)
    30.3%
  4. Anticipation of upcoming terrain through GPS integration

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  5. Weight reduction of 15% or more

    11 vote(s)
    33.3%
  6. Removal of spare tire to save weight or increase cargo space

    10 vote(s)
    30.3%
  7. Increased battery capacity (whether NiMH, Lithium-ion, Lithium Polymer, or whatever)

    23 vote(s)
    69.7%
  8. Ability to plug-in to recharge (in other words, will a Gen IV plug-in be available at release?)

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  9. Decrease in warm-up cycle time of more than one minute (beating the Prius v warmup time)

    17 vote(s)
    51.5%
  10. Other (please specify below)

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. breakfast

    breakfast Active Member

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    You may choose an unlimited number of items. Explain your rationale, or suggest other improvements!
     
  2. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Other = "More Cowbell"
     
  3. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    My votes and justifications:
    • Grill Shutters:
      Other manufacturers have implemented them. Everyone knows the Prius takes a hit in the winter months. And even though we almost exclusively focus on mileage around here, the Prius was designed - and is still designed - to achieve the lowest emissions rating of any ICE-powered vehicle. So automatic grill shutters will help keep the engine at temp which will allow the engine to emit fewer emissions.
    • 40% effiency:
      Read the article. If they hit 38.5 six years ago, I'm guessing they are above 40 by now.
    • Removing the Spare Tire:
      More and more manufacturers are removing spares. It's the way things are going. There are car clubs, there's Fix-a-Flat. Eliminating the spare reduces weight and eliminates the cost of a fifth tire.
    • Increased Battery Capacity:
      Much like the 40% effiency, they've had six years to work on battery energy potential. Great strides have been taken in the overall battery industry and it would be silly for Toyota to ignore those. I'm not saying it'll be overwhelmingly huge but it'll be something. The flip side might be if they get better density and end up reducing the size and weight of the battery keeping the current overall capacity.
    • Decreased Warm-up Time:
      I just really think they are attacking this as one of their low-emission pillars. I don't know how they could do it, but I'm betting there will be something that will reduce warm-up.
    Things I didn't vote for
    • Direct Injection:
      Just feels wrong. Something about the improved effiency tells me that they've got something else in mind.
    • Terrain Anticipation:
      Too over-the-top for my tastes.
    • Weight Reduction:
      Yes, I think there will be some weight reduction somehow. 15% is too high for my guessing.
    • Plug-in:
      Nope. Simply not going to happen.

    If I were to add to the list
    • Larger electric motor:
      I think a larger motor will allow for more power and higher stealthing speeds.
    • More aggressive ICE shut-off:
      Other manufacturers have more aggressive algorithms for when the ICE will shut off. I think Toyota will need to go that route if they are to hit that magical 60mpg (which I'm really hoping for).
    • More compact and more efficient planetary gear system:
      With each new generation, they tweak their planetary gear system and blow us away with their creativity. This more-or-less represents the heart of their HSD. I expect to see something new here.
     
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  4. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    I would never vote for removing a spare tire (nor will I buy another car without a spare). I got screwed by that in my Volt, never again. Before that clustercluck of a day I was all for not caring about having a spare. How perceptions can change.

    And tossing a spare somewhere in the vehicle is not an option, again, for me. ymmv.
     
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  5. alekska

    alekska Active Member

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    Those who feel they need a spare can purchase one an take on a trip with them when needed. On the Leaf owner site (Leaf comes without spare) there is several threads on what fits and where to buy, for example.
    Most owners will be ok without spare - not many would know how to replace it in anyway - that's a reality these days

    - Alex
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed, thats why there's one in my hatch. i can live with that, if there's good reason.:cool:
     
  7. alekska

    alekska Active Member

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    Narrow and large diameter tires as in BMW i3 ??? Would improve highway mileage IMHO. Would look better, too at least from the side :)

    - Alex
     
  8. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Yeah, glad that works for some, it doesn't for me that's why I said ymmv. More and more manufacturers are doing away with spares, I realize that, but I will not be buying any of those vehicles that's for sure.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed, it's not for everybody. still, i would be happier if they put a spare back in the next pip.
     
  10. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    What happened?
    - Fixa flat didn't work?
    - Roadside service took hours?
    - No phone reception to call?
    ????
     
  11. breakfast

    breakfast Active Member

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    The spare tire was one of the key differentiators in my purchase decision for the Gen III Prius this year.

    @alexska - people who carry spares and don't know how to change them still get the safety benefit - they can simply call AAA or ToyotaCare to have someone change their tire for them anytime 24/7.

    I hope that someday someone invents a "swiss army knife" spare tire that could fit on most any car - it would enable tow trucks/AAA vans to carry live spares on hand, and it would save huge amounts of fuel. But that day isn't close to here.
    My last two flat tires were sidewall punctures from potholes - a can of fix a flat would have been worthless.


    Great additions. Larger electric motors would really help, as would an MG1 rated with a higher maximum rotational speed. A larger capacity battery, along with a faster spinning MG1, could give the Gen IV, as a standard hybrid, a stealth mode equaling or exceeding the 62 MPH limit of the PiP.

    @tony - it appears that there a 10-question limit for polls on PriusChat. Is this correct?
     
  12. alekska

    alekska Active Member

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    What I was saying is you dont have to limit your vehicle choice to ones with spare only...if you can purchase and carry around your own spare. Unless you are so loaded that there is no space in the whole car.

    - Alex
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    Yup, four bolts vs five, for example. :ROFLMAO: I know, I know, someday. Anyway, until then: no spare? Deal breaker. Also, that damn catfish-with-an-hourglass-gob front grill that's so popular on the Lexus: sorry, no sale.
     
  14. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Off topic, but I want to see more secure battery location: If these news reports keep going about batteries being cut out of trunks, not only will I not purchase, I will be more motivated to sell mine.
     
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  15. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    I know what you're saying Alex, I'm saying I would not purchase a vehicle that does not come with a spare to then go out and buy a spare to toss behind a seat, strap it in the cargo area etc. ymmv.
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Underneath or behind the rear seat is about as secure as it is going to get. It is already bulky and heavy enough that thieves have to be targeting it, and will just find a a quick, likely destructive, way of bypassing any other securings. Going from nickel to cheaper lithium is probably the best way of reducing the appeal of stealing the battery.

    Skip on a hybrid for because of worry of battery theft, and someone will just steal your catalytic convertor, or gas, or wheels, or anything that looks remotely valuable left in the car.

    As for the poll, I think there will be:
    • Grill shutters are already on some less expensive class vehicles. As long as the next Prius has a forward facing grill, having them will not be a major cost increase. They'll help with warm up, and highway aerodynamics.
    • Which ties into decrease in warm up time. A larger capacity battery may also help with this indirectly. More energy for EV during warm up may not decrease the time, but reduce the amount of fuel wasted by the ICE heating up and moving car the car.
    • Larger battery. I don't see Toyota abandoning NiMH anytime soon, but the new platform may have the weight and space savings to allow a larger pack. This will allow more energy to be captured with regen braking, in addition too more energy for EV and assist modes.
    • The 40% ICE thermal efficiency has been mentioned for awhile now.
    • Direct inject ties into that increase efficiency. It allows a higher compression ratio to eek more energy out of the fuel during the power stroke.
    • I did vote for the decreased weight, but thinking it over, it won't be 15%. Ford saved 15% on the F150 be replacing most of the steel with aluminum. The Prius already makes use of aluminum in places, and I doubt it has the margins of a truck to absorb going all aluminum. Toyota does have that FCV/carbon fiber partnership with BMW though. CF isn't likely because of cost, but Toyota might use some if they see it as an investment. BMW has reduced the cost, and increased production and applications can help reduce it further in time. The weight savings will be important from it will be important for FCVs and any future cars with the increasing fuel economy targets.
    Sounds like a no brainer, but isn't the motor's output limited during EV and stealth modes by the traction pack's output? If so, a more powerful battery may be all that is needed to get more out of the motor without the ICE on. Unless the ICE has gone smaller and the HSD makes more use of serial operation.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm more concerned about actual battery theft numbers, than i am about news reports. if they are higher than car thefts, i will be concerned. but not unless i move to cali.
     
  18. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I did not know Prius v was the warm-up champ, but I see this as important. I think other hybrids may not have this issue because they are not CARB certified, so Prius loses MPG vs. FORD if the FORD can be non CARB in non CARB state. Toyota's been giving everyone CARB vehicles, which I think accounts for MPG deficit at warm-up.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    My Prius (v)agon really does a superb job of ICE warm-up.
    My first mile is low speed driving out of the neighborhood. At mile #1, my MPG is in the 40s and the ICE temp has increased about 40-50F, enough to enter EV mode at a stop. By mile #4 overall MPG has reached 60 MPG in mild weather and the ICE is toasty.

    Numbers are from a ScanGauge, and are the result of attempted efficient driving technique. This particular one-way route drops about 50 ft, worth about 10 Wh per Km savings to the drivetrain.

    Addendum: Incidentaly, our Honda Fit also warms up quite quickly. One of the advantages of small, Alu engines.
     
    #19 SageBrush, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  20. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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    Other: better front seats - comfier.
     
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