Pop!Tech: Thomas Friedman

Kyoto is a joke. Look at Canada's GHG emissions. They're up considerably over the 1990 baseline because of tar sand oil production. Kyoto is a failure. We need to find a better way.

I like Tom Friedman, though. He has a lot of good ideas, and the right attitude.

 

I agree, but I don't think we're being left behind. There's a LOT of good stuff going on here. Just look at the amount of money that's being invested in green/greener technology. It we do anything well it's jump on the opportunity to make money. The problems we're facing with energy/environment/security also provide us with enormous opportunities. It's just like the Chinese character for "anxiety", which is a combination of danger and opportunity.

 

did anyone catch Friedmans show on the Science channel last weekend?? about alternative energy and going green?? very very interesting

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ May 1 2007, 08:58 AM) [snapback]433176[/snapback]</div>

According to the people on the peak oil forums(granted, they are experts like people on this board are experts in the prius):

http://www.peakoil.com/forums.html

According to them the ability to scale the renewables to current energy comsumpation rates is mathematically impossible. We'll be killing ourselves over oil before we get 50-100 million plugin hybrid's out there on the road. They've vetted the data that's out there and they give a bleak picture. It's actually pretty amusing. But scaling renewables is non starter pipe dream(according to them).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 1 2007, 12:33 PM) [snapback]433367[/snapback]</div>

Uh... which forum?

That sounds pretty defeatist to me. Fighting for the oil won't work either. Oil infrastructure is very vulnerable. It'll get destroyed very quickly. Besides, large scale warfare will cost far, far more than simply switching gears. It's not like the oil will suddenly be gone. The price of it will sky rocket. We'll have abandoned oil long before we run out of it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 1 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]433367[/snapback]</div>

The ideas presented by Amory Lovins and the corporations that have taken some of these measures tells a different story. Is it infailable? Who knows but it's better than business as usual and people are profiting on the ideas while lessening their impact on this earth and us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 1 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]433406[/snapback]</div>

Which board? I tried to thrown in my 2 cents(which is about what it's worth) into the main discussion and alternative energies board. It was kind of interesting, but very cumbersome. They had their statistics and talking points ready. Any rhetorical arguments I had on an optimistic future without oil was promptly defeated with neat statistics that was spun to spell armaggedon. I just couldn't counter their statistics. I thought maybe some here who actually know the numbers might be able to put up a better fight, but I couldn't.

As for the war for oil, we have one right now for the middle east. We probably won't go toe to toe with Chindia or Russia for fuel, but there might be pricing/monentary blackmail scenarios which might make us go without oil as if it were a war.

Nonetheless, I agree with you. I think the price of oil will drive innovation and conservation way before we kill each other off for oil(but hopefully before we face the music with global warming).

 

the link you gave had many forums on it (sorta like the PC "forums" page). I thought you might be referring to a specific forum within that page. I'm not trying to take the piss out of you.

I think the two are pretty well interwoven, which works to our advantage (thankfully).