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Port Isabel, TX, to Huntsville, AL, drive

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by bwilson4web, Jun 10, 2024.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I combined these data sources for the following chart:
    • Tesla App invoices - downloadable CSV
      • Charge kWh
    • TezLab trip records - downloadable CSV
      • Accurate start and stop times for each segment
    • Visa charge records - downloadable CSV
      • What I actually pay
    [​IMG]

    DESCRIPTION
    • Started drive at 8:30 AM, with dark green bar, after free charging at walking distance L2 chargers.
    • Kingville SuperCharger at 10:34 added 25.87 kWh, dark blue "+"; Visa billed $9.45, red double "+", with; start and end charging sessions marked between "++".
      • Subsequent SuperCharging session follow the same protocol.
      • Session charged to give a 30-40 mi reserve to the next SuperCharger.
      • Roughly equal number of V2, 150 kW, and V3, 250 kW chargers.
        • My 2019 Model 3 has an initial peak rate of 178 kW.
    • State boundaries are light blue verticals with State abbreviations of each border.
    • Last segment, light green bar, longer than expected 'cat nap', those miles are replaced by charging at home, $0.12/kWh which shows up in monthly Visa bill, not the SuperCharger Visa.
    • Trip 1,170 mi, with FSD and Tesla routing
      • Visa charges billed, $90.94, Tesla App totaled $101.95
      • SuperCharger rate, $90.94 / 1,170 = $7.77 per 100 miles
      • 1,170 mi / 23.5 hours ~= 50 mph, block-to-block speed
    LESSONS LEARNED
    • Full Self Driving makes a safe "all nighter" possible.
    • Longer than expected "cat nap" at end suggests a motel at ~500 miles makes more sense.
      • A 12 hour driving shift with FSD or AutoPilot is entirely practical.
        • Commercial truck drivers are limited to 11 hours of manual driving.
      • Last segment, started at a high SOC, 90%, due to longer 'cat nap.'
        • Cost embedded in utility bill at $0.12/kWh versus $0.32/kWh SuperCharger rates.
      • A bed, hot shower, free charging, and breakfast makes the next ~500 miles much nicer.
    • Free charging at the start with an affordable, $0.12/kWh, at the end reduces the SuperCharger road costs.
    • With a peak charge rate of 178 kW, the slightly longer V2 sessions do not make forcing V3 stations critical. If convent, use a V3 but the vehicle charge limit is less than what a V3 can provide.
    This trip combined three data sources to give an accurate view of long distance, EV driving. Adding the vehicle charge curve can give a better cost and time model.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    exactly
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Is there something wrong? My browser shows only one post.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Looks like you stopped 9 times for fuel not counting the last stop at home. Total time consumed during those stops? Or average time?

    Looks like your number of stops would about match mine. Fueling only 4 times.

    Looks like your fuel costs matched my hybrid fuel costs.

    Looks like your depreciation exceeds mine.

    I wonder at the wisdom of posting that you did a 24 hour drive. In the future (and hopefully never) if a lawyer should get a hold of that it might not be to your favor.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oh my, the sky is falling...
     
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    He already crossed that bridge some time ago, in explicitly indicating use of FSD to enable a trip that wouldn't be attempted without it.
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    • You stopped 9 times for fuel not counting the last stop at home. Total time consumed during those stops? Or average time?
      • I counted 10 stops.
      • Raw data in seconds
        • Sec
          983
          1,407
          1,350
          775
          772
          1,386
          1,460
          1,538
          1,208
          1,823
    • Looks like your number of stops would about match mine. Fueling only 4 times.
      • You would take 10 stops so only 4 of them involve fueling?
      • In 1,170 miles, 4 stops run about 292.5 miles per segment?
      • With EVs, we combine charging with other reasons for stopping (i.e., biology)
    • Looks like your fuel costs matched my hybrid fuel costs.
      • $7.77 / 100 miles ~= ($90.94 / 1,170) * 100
      • Gas @$3.638/gal nation average, ~2.14 gal / 100 miles or equivalent 47.6 MPG
    • Looks like your depreciation exceeds mine.
      • Until I sell my car, depreciation does not apply and I'm not selling.
      • Capital cost if the car disappears on June 6
        • Purchase: $24,000 ~= $42,000 - $18,300 trade-in
        • Ownership: + 5 years
        • Straight line depreciation: $4,800 / year to date
    • I wonder at the wisdom of posting that you did a 24 hour drive. In the future (and hopefully never) if a lawyer should get a hold of that it might not be to your favor.
      • They haven't met my lawyers: upload_2024-6-11_0-51-37.png
      • Given commercial truck drivers are limited to 11 hours per day, changing to 12 hours per day with Full Self Driving makes sense.
        • Tesla safety reports AutoPilot is ~6x safer than USA manual driving.
    My experience is an EV can pretty well do everything an ordinary gasser or hybrid does but differently. The key is to overlap charging with other reasons for stopping.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #8 bwilson4web, Jun 11, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
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  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    My CFO and I have a running joke that married men don't live longer but rather it just SEEMS longer.

    HOWEVER (comma!)
    The ladies do keep sometimes keep us dudes from doing stupid stuff.

    I extrapolated the running averages from my routine 665 mile sojourns to the home sod for an 1100 mile trip.
    I normally make the Indy run solo in about 9 hours which is a roughly 73mph speed of advance.
    With my CFO it takes more than 10 hours - because of longer rest breaks and a more sedate SOA.

    An 1100 mile trip in one hop is easily doable in a 'gasser' because even with a 70 mph SOA you're looking at a 16 hours day but my guess is that it's not a ...er.... 'night and day' difference from a driving a BEV for 23 hours over the same course.

    That's a big deal.

    Ten years and a zillion charging options ago this would have been a lot tougher for the EVangelists, and it would have cost them a LOT more.
    Ten years from now it will be easier - but you still have to think about it some at present.
    Much like automobile trips about 80 years ago.
    My 665 mile trip is a two-hop event and my only constraints with fueling options is that I load fuel one time after about 200 miles presuming I depart with a bull bag of petrol.
    If I pump bilges and grab some coffee and a snack it's a leisurely 20-munite event - otherwise on and off in 10


    FSD is interesting but not really a game changer for this application.
    Gassers have lane keeping, adaptive CC, auto braking, and many of the other safety features that are accentuated by FSD so that's not really a 'thing' IMHO.
    Inattention is inattention and over the course of many 16-23 hour events the law of averages will assert itself eventually.

    Self-driving is a little like pickleball - an activity that gives the non-athletic an artificial illusion of athleticism.
    Pickleball can get taters up off their couches and moving around a bit - but it CAN ALSO cause them to engage in foolish and even self-destructive behavior.
     
    #9 ETC(SS), Jun 11, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Can you read this spreadsheet with the raw data?



    Bob Wilson
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Having bought FSD in Oct 2019, I have a lot of 'hands on' time. Even the early Autopilot paid for itself the first month when I suffered a medical problem under treatment:
    • AutoPilot is best learned with some mentoring that Tesla is trying to address.
    • Full Self Driving especially needs mentoring.
    • A retired engineer and operating system programmer, my habits make 'integration and test' second nature.
    There are no words that can adequately replace mentoring. For FSD, it means a pair of sessions, about an hour each, hopefully on two subsequent days. You drive and a second observer passenger while I mentor from the front, passenger seat. This type of mentoring can solve multiple problems including the remaining, latent defects. Once you know what they are, it becomes second nature to deal with them.

    Bob Wilson

    ps. If anyone within say 500 miles would like FSD training, send me a PM of where and when. My fee, dinner but I won't turn down a night on the sofa.
     
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  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    ... if Father Time doesn't intervene first.

    Though the two put together, do seem to amplify each other. A "synergy".
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Well guess I'll have to 'get a horse.' God forbid that I ever become an enemy of change:
    upload_2024-6-13_3-37-48.png

    A life well lived:
    upload_2024-6-13_3-41-7.png

    I've known people whose imagination died before their 20s. Truly, the walking zombies who live among us.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #13 bwilson4web, Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Ask any real astronaut what the gutsiest mission that was ever flown and most of them would say Apollo-8.

    Bob Kurson, a steely-eyed history geek wrote a pretty good book about this ground breaking mission.
    Rocket Men (book) - Wikipedia

    Concur!
    He died doing the stick and rudder thing at 90 - not the worst way to go.
    I know of at least two people who are a decade younger who do not possess a fraction of his intellect, courage, or humanity.
    One of them can barely get on and off an airplane……
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't even like to fly, but i'm 2 decades younger