Power lost on slightest spin of tires

traction control.

i've never experienced conditions where it's kicked in, but others are expressing irritation with it while driving in the snow.

 

Twice I have pulled into heavy traffic from a side road and hit mud or wet sand. As soon as the right front tire slipped (I was making a right turn), the car lost all driving power. I knew this was the traction control kicking in. As soon as the front tires synched with each other, the power returned.

As I know about this, I avoid requesting strong acceleration in slippery conditions. However, the design is very dangerious and should be seriously looked at.

I have not reported the condition to my dealer or anyone else. I have, however, been expecting a recall on this dangeriously unsafe flaw.

jrohland

 

traction control ...we have been dealing with this "problem" since we had our 04...if you would rock your steering wheel back and forth rapidly, you will see some power restored to the front wheels...as you begin to move across the snow or whatever...and pump the accelerator while you rock the steering wheel. the bottom line is...dont even think about pulling out in front of someone when you are stuck on snow or ice at an intersection...

 

Is this problem aleviated with studded snow tires?

/Jim

 

I can't speak from experience yet, but I would think that anything that increases traction should alleviate the problem to equal degree.
Chains would do even more.
Rocking the steering wheel increases traction as it turns the wheel to an area of the road not yet slicked down by the tire and is therefore rougher.

This has been discussed on wet icy surfaces before...from what I remember, the folks who have the most problems are the ones that also get great MPG because thier tires have little traction.

Bottom line... is it safer to have traction control on or off when you have tires with little traction?

I agree with the idea of traction control, but seem the big problem is that power is not adequately transfered to the wheels that "do" have traction, it is rather just pulled leaving folks powerless until traction is regained?

It may be hard for Toyota to integrate all 4 tires into the traction scheme without killing MPG.. similiar to a 4X4?...... they would have to somehow make the prius in essence a full time 4X4 without killing MPG.

The smartest thing at this point is to have tires that carry traction on snow and ice.... wider the tire, the worse for snow..... there are extensive threads on this issue about traction and tires.

 

Yes, I have experienced this. It can be dangerous.

Awhile back I was making a left turn and a car turned right in front of me. There was a good sized pot hold that my right tire hit at the same time. The traction control kicked in and I lost all braking power for a moment; I was able to stop in time but just by a slight amount after the car decided to let me brake.

A few weeks ago we had our first snow and I noticed the car will not let you spin the tires at all which can be necessary in some conditions.

I have been told this is to protect the car from damaging itself and not really "traction control".

 

yeah, the prius in the snow sucks. <------ period

I do have to admit that serious winter tires might make a difference, but to me, that's just too much of a hassle for a handful of shitty days. Well, at least where i live...

 

I know traction control behavior can be disconcerting if you're used to engine revving and the squealing of rubber when you floor it. Traction control kicks in when one or both of the drive wheels are slipping, and a slipping tire has very little traction. I submit that if you had a Prius without traction control that it would accelerate slower than a standard Prius in slippery conditions. If you want to prevent traction control from engaging you should get better tires and/or drive more conservatively. In any car, pulling out in front of traffic in slippery conditions is dangerous and should be done with extreme care.

 

I wonder if this was a engineering or legal choice. As windstrings said above, the brake should be applied to the tire spinning faster so both wheels have the same rotational speed (adjusting for the steering wheel angle). However, what Toyota appears to have done is back the power off to both tires when either looses traction.

Now, because the prius is a two wheel drive car, when both wheels are spinning free, the vehicle is harder to control. I wonder if the lawyers decided it would be better to stop the car than to let it go out of control at speed.

Of course, the Prius is front wheel drive. The stability control should be able to use the rear brakes to help keep the car under some control.

I would like a snow/ice option that does not pull power at speeds below say 10 MPH (measured at a back [non-driven] wheel). This would allow traction control to help at slow speeds while keeping the vehicle reasonable controllable. But then, I'm not an automotive engineer or lawyer. So, what do I know?

jrohland

 

TC is there to protect the HSD system. spinning the wheels isn't good for it.

 

just spent nearly two weeks driving in icy conditions and had no problem. less than ½ a block from my house is a very steep short hill. i thought for sure i wouldnt make it up and sure enough the squiggly flashed on and off a dozen times and i could feel the momentum kicking on and off but i made it and rather easily... now i was moving and navigated it at 10-15 mph and im sure it would have been different if i had been at a standstill. (about normal speed anywa). later that day, i had to go back down the slope and nearly slid into the street trying to stop... kinda interesting to lose control and slide when only going 10 miles an hour. figured that would be slow enough to stop...almost wasnt

 

During my slightly hairy attempt to climb the Blue Ridge last
week, we landed pointing uphill on a patch of pretty much glare
ice [or *very* packed snow]. Any attempt at movement *did* lightly
spin the front wheels, which at the time unfortunately caused the
front of the car to slide sideways closer to the ditch [well, better
that than the no-guardrail cliff on the other side]. More than
enough *traction* to overcome the coefficient at the contact patch,
in other words. In this case the right answer was to carefully
back down off the ice far enough to safely turn around and admit
defeat. The mountain won, but NOT because of any deficiency in
the Prius' drivetrain.
.
_H*

 

Sounds like a programming problem...

They need to build in fake 'rocking' just like they built in fake transmission drag.

When the speed is under 5mph, allow the tires to spin out to some degree, especially when it's floored and the computer would otherwise stop you.

 

I think most of you are not thinking clearly. If a tire spins because it has no traction, what benefit is it to spin it faster? NONE. So if you can't go because your tires can't pull you over ice/sand/gravel, why should the HSD commit suicide? Would you want to replace your drivetrain because you can't spin your wheels?

Pulling out in front of oncoming traffic is rarely advised. Pulling out in front of oncoming traffic on ice is stupid and potentially suicidal. Your Prius doesn't want to commit suicide, even if you think you can make it onto the frozen highway in front of that big semi...

Like Hobbit described, discretion is the better part of valor. If it's too steep or too icy and your tires can't take you where you want to go, maybe you should reconsider where you want to go. The Prius is a smart car. With great tires, suitable for your driving conditions, and probably NOT Goodyear Integrity stock tires, you can drive over snow and ice, but only at a speed that keeps your tires in firm contact with the road, and you in control of your car.

Yes, I have experienced Traction Control cutting power. Yes, it is not like other cars, and a bit unnerving. I have to climb a fairly steep hill to leave my house in the morning. When the hill is icy, I can always make it to the top, but not necessarily at the 25 MPH speed limit. And if it was so bad I couldn't make it, I think the rest of the roads in the area would be equally bad, and I shouldn't go out at all.

If you don't agree, get a Hummer. And good luck.

 

Way to go Bill, I couldn't have said it better.

We had about a week of ice and I had no problems even with OEM tires. Just take it easy and the Prius will get you there. I passed several cars and SUV's that were in the ditch as well as a cab that was perched up on the sidewalk.

 

I have Revo 1 tires, supposedly designed for hard pack and ice, and have been driving on snow/ice just about all my life.

I live in the mountains of NC and find the car totally useless on ice. I can't even get down to the main road to try it on the snow. On one occasion last summer, I couldn't even get it to go up a moderately pitched gravel driveway. Please don't tell me it's the way I drive or that I should slow down. I CAN"T EVEN GET THE DAMN CAR MOVING!

I have a neighbor who is a lawyer with a nationally know reputation. His opinion was that the traction control made the car unsafe and grounds for a class action suit. I would be the first to join it.

 

Lawyers.... Need I say more???

Try driving a Mercedes C320 in the snow, then I wouldn't mind calling a lawyer. Yes, in the Mercedes you can turn off the traction control, but it still sucks anyway.

I have Nokian WR tires and I have driven through a few nice snowstorms as well as icey situations. I even climbed a fairly steep road that was snow covered. I find the Prius quite admirable in wet/snowy conditions. As to ice, well no car is good in ice, but the Prius does just fine. I find that if you want to avoid wheel spin, you feather the throttle to gain about 5-10 MPH, then add a little more throttle once underway and it works well for me. Yes, you will at times hear/see the TC kick in, but if it didn't you can kiss your HSD goodbye. If anyone here can't accept these limitations, just upgrade and get a HH or RH.

 

Goodyear TripleTreds took care of the day-to-day problems with Traction Control, but I don't drive on snow around here to say if they help there too...