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Power of Nightmares

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by dragonfly, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    Thanks to Three60guy for posting the link to this excellent documentary. So far I've only watched the first episode (twice) of three. It explains things like the assassination of Anwar Sadat and how that's linked to OBL; the rise of Neo-Conservativism, and its connection to religion. Really enlightening stuff. It helps explain what Bush means when he says "the terrorists hate our freedom", which I could never make sense of before, and the irony behind that statement. Anyhow, take a look if you get a chance. I'm going on to Episode 2!

    Power of Nightmares
     
  2. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    Glad you liked it. It gets better with each episode. Like I said before, I wish everyone could see it before the elections. Very enlightning.

    You wonder why a series like this has never aired in the land of the free. Free speech.....hmmmm. Do we still have it here? It aired in the United Kingdom. Heck, it was produced by the BBC. But not once has it aired in the good ole USA.

    Once you go through this series of programs you may start to see how government, religion and the media all get thrown in together to create the soup we have today. This, to me is nuts. I just hope we all see the light sooner rather than later.
     
  3. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    The media -- yeah, that's another area I just don't get (wrt how things like "The Path to 9/11" aired on ABC, and how FOX gets away with the crap they call "news"). Well, onward to the next episode!
     
  4. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    Well you are on your way to the best episode, in my opinion. Part 3 is where it all comes together.

    Is anyone else checking this out?
     
  5. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    Dragonfly

    Looks like we scared everyone away with this high browed documentary. I had hoped many would have taken the time to see it.
     
  6. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    Maybe they are away from the boards watching it? :)
     
  7. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    DUH. I should have thought of that.
     
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    Finished Episode II. Wow! I need to let it sink in before I go on to the last one. Here's a few burning questions.

    1) Kotb (and others in the Muslim Brotherhood) become radicalized through torture. Is there a current intention to radicalize Iraqis in the same way? (Not talked about in the documentary, just a thought.)

    2) Irving Kristol blames the freedoms of the "Great Society" as leading to the riots and violence of the 60's. Is this a valid explanation, or just a radical idea the NeoCons latched on to? (I always thought the riots were due to racial injustice.)

    3) Kissinger rejected the NeoCon ideals during the cold war, but isn't he now advising Bush on Iraq? Not a question really, more of an observation. Weird.

    4) In Episode II, the underlying motivation of al-Zawahiri et al. is explained to be the (perceived) corruption of the Islamic politicians and citizens, which was seen to have originated from the U.S. This is the basis for "why they hate us", which I had thought was because of our military bases in Islamic regions (occupation/presence of infidels on their land), and our support for Isreal, which are not discussed in the documentary. So, was I altogether wrong, or is it really a combination of all these things?
     
  9. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Oct 19 2006, 08:56 PM) [snapback]335358[/snapback]</div>
    1) "Intentions to radicalize Iraqis?" The way I see this is if we make out the people of the Muslim faith as radicals then it only improves our current government's view that the people of the USA needs to vote to keep them in power so they can continue to keep Americans safe. So Bush had to come up with some idea to justify it. Aha....weapons of mass destruction. All I can say is how the heck did we logically go from a few extreme Muslims living in poor conditions into believing the entire country of ours was suddenly at risk? It just does not make sense. It was us who made us believe the concept of terrorism.

    2) The riots were about the war in Vietnam. I was a geek teen-ager when all that happened. Until my birthday (May 27) was declared a really high draft number I was sweating bullets that I was gonna go to Vietnam myself. There was really no support for the Vietnam war by the people. Sooner or later I believe the war on terrorism will be seen for what it is and will loose support too. But it won't unless documentaries like the one you are watching are seen by a ton of people. It certainly won't be by advertising it here on PriusChat. But hey, word of mouth is a powerful thing.

    3) I have no idea what Kissinger is doing now.

    4) Actually, you have it right. Think about how they treat women in that culture. They hate the idea that women in America have the same rights as men. They want every woman in America to be treated the same as in Muslim countries. Down to what they wear and to not allow women to drive a car. That is just an example. It goes so very much deeper than that, however. The differences between our cultures is vast. They blame the US for introducing all these terrible things to their country. And they are willing to die to bring it to an end and to kill all the infidels to make sure it goes away. Now, is that a reasonable expectation on their part? Hell no. But to someone brought up in their culture with the lack of knowledge base they have been exposed to.....that is totally reasonable.

    Can't wait to see what you say after seeing Part 3.
     
  10. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Three60guy @ Oct 19 2006, 11:53 PM) [snapback]335415[/snapback]</div>
    Yeah, that's my point.... the WMDs didn't pan out, so now they need another reason to keep us safe. To do that, we need to have enemies, i.e. radicals. Best way to produce radicals is by making regular people hate us. Otherwise, I just can't make sense of why they would want to torture so badly.

    Also explains why we haven't really tried to go after OBL.
    Yeah, and this has been made clear by Olbermann's reporting on the timing of news reports of threats coming out of Homeland Security which were shown to correlate with news that tended to make the Administration look bad. IOW, the "terror alerts" were made up to scare us & divert attention.
    Ok, gotcha. As my cousin used to say, I missed it - I was riding my bike.
    And this parallels with Strauss' ideas of democratic freedoms leading to individual corruption, which is why it's important to understand point (2).
    Tomorrow!
     
  11. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    This documentary is a large time committment (3hrs) broken into 3 parts. I have only viewed pt.1 so far and it is very informative. It is also no wonder it will not be shown on US tv, ever, and definately before an election. Part 1 gives history of radical religionism encompassing muslims and fundamentalist christians. It depicts their parallel development often using the same strategies and boogymen to further their own interests.
     
  12. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    Awesome! We have another viewer in the discussion, yippee!
     
  13. tleonhar

    tleonhar Senior Member

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    YES!! Got my streaming video problem fixed! :)

    Had a problem for the past couple months, when I'd try to watch any streaming video, my router would lock up :angry: tried updating the firmware, backdating et all. Decided it was time to retire the old 802.11b router/access point, along with a cool 802.11G model being on sale, now my streaming video problems are a thing of the past, on both wired and wireless connections :D :D

    Started watching part 1, crappy weather forcast this weekend should be able to get some good viewing time.
     
  14. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    So who has gone through all three parts?
     
  15. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Another night, another mare. No...wait, I must be dreaming.

    But...I can't be dreaming - this is a nightmare.

    War is peace. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. Time is money. America is beautiful.

    My name is Winston. I love rats.
     
  16. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    I have now finished part 2. It becomes even clearer to me why this 3 part series will never be shown on US tv. Part 2 shows how the Soviet Union crumbled from within without any help from Reagan thereby dispelling one of his most important legacies...that he caused the collapse. It shows how the Soviets warned the US that Afghanistan was unwinnable to any outside power. Later in the documentary they discuss why jihad was started...western corruption was influencing Islamic states. They considered America one of the most corrupt of all, so when we went into Islamic countries militarily it was like disturbing a bees nest on their home front, from their point of view bringing our corruption directly into their house.

    For some reason they state that Kissinger was the enemy of the Neocons in the 1970's, so it is sure puzzling why he is such a close adviser to junior now. The Neocns believed religion was a myth but the followers could be easily influenced and used for Neocon's goals so were courted. Normal cons were marginalized purposely. The Neocons had a policy of intentional misinformation toward Clinton to make him transformed into a fantasy enemy to further their goals and win back the white house. There are so many parallels between the Neocons and fundamentalist Muslims it becomes absolutely frightening. David Brock of the Neocon Magazine American Spectator drove the campaign to discredit Clinton at any cost. After Clinton left the white house even Brock distanced himself from the Neocons as believing they had gone too far in making up non-facts relating to their fantasy enemy to further their agenda. By 1997 the world jihad had failed and the radical Muslims were on their way out. In a strategy of desperation they directed one last push at their enemy, America.
     
  17. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Three60guy @ Oct 19 2006, 01:16 AM) [snapback]334935[/snapback]</div>
    I watched this over the web a few months back. Amazing stuff.
     
  18. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Oct 21 2006, 12:07 PM) [snapback]336111[/snapback]</div>
    Great summary John!
     
  19. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    Right on MarinJohn!! You nailed it.

    Dragonfly, have you seen part 3 yet?
     
  20. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    Just starting it now!