Power on, but stationary; traction battery recharging from the ICE:

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pking51, Jul 4, 2015.

  1. pking51

    pking51 New Member

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    2013 Prius v (wagon) Level 3: When I pull into a rest stop (“Ready” on, in “Park”) for a few hours of snooze, and the traction battery is “full” (~6 bars), it will run the AC for 60-90 minutes before the ICE starts up (at 2 bars) to recharge the battery. It recharges to 3 bars (in ~3 min) and then shuts off. After that the ICE cycles on every 15-20 min (which is annoying) and each time it runs just long enough to charge from 2 bars to 3 bars. All of that on/off is hard to sleep through. I bought this car because it can run the AC off the battery, which it will automatically charge when low. It’s brilliant – up to a point.

    Question: How do I tell the ICE to charge the traction battery from 2 bars all the way up to 6 bars again (should take ~ 15 min or so) while parked, for another whole hour+ of quiet slumber?
     
  2. Eclipse1701d

    Eclipse1701d Prius Enthusiast

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    Sorry to say, but you purchased the car for the wrong reason. The A/C does run off electric. But, the amount of energy stored in the battery is finite. You cannot expect the battery to power the A/C all night on a single charge. And, the car is designed to do exactly what it is doing. You cannot change that behavior unless you can hack the system and change the design perimeters. Needless to say, that is not going to happen... Maybe this will help!

    How to beat the heat on a budget with home made air conditioner | Daily Mail Online

    [​IMG]

    Have to follow this up by saying that I was only kidding around... The only way to get back up to six bars is to drive it and charge it...
     
  3. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Part of the problem is the "Ready" mode means the engine has to be instantly ready to go (warmed up) so it has to run occasionally to keep the coolant warm (ironic when you are trying to stay cool). In addition, many electric motors are running such as the AC condenser fan, water pump and of course the AC compressor drive. So Toyota would have to enable an option to run the AC without the Ready mode and that might help.

    It's possible that an add-on battery system would give you more time the first time around, but it would be an expensive test. Plug-In Supply | Plug-In Upgrades for the Toyota Prius

    PS: Carbon Monoxide poisoning in your sleep could end your quest for low cost travel housing. Even in recirculate mode, some outside air enters by design.
     
    #3 rjparker, Jul 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Obtuse Angler

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    Sorry, but hanging out in your running car for hours with the AC running is wrong, for countless reasons.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have always wondered why toyota decided to keep the battery low when in stop and go traffic, which is basically the same scenario. i wonder if the mpg's and pollution are better that way, than having it charge up to six, rinse and repeat. or is it better for battery life?
     
  6. pking51

    pking51 New Member

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    Thank you all for your thoughtful comments up to this point.

    As for reply #2, “How to beat the heat on a budget …” from Eclipse1701d: I watched the video and find this pretty clever – and simple. Putting the ice in a jug solves the second problem I thought of: humidity. Of course the first problem is making the ice while driving down the road. Also, the bucket would be fairly “big” where space is a premium and (even worse than that) the orange color would clash with my interior decor. I got that you were kidding around and appreciate the humor. As for hacking the system: who better to do that than Toyota engineering? Perhaps someone reading this knows one?

    As for reply #4, “So Toyota would have to enable an option to run the AC without the Ready mode …” from rjparker: Yes. That would be good. I had assumed the AC compressor is driven from MG1, but now I read it has its own motor. Well, now that makes sense. Also, I’m guessing that an add-on battery (to extend the initial run time) would have to be an add-on traction battery. So, you’re correct: an expensive test.

    Finally, I would not set the HVAC to recirculation as my guess is that outside air is safer, and CO poisoning seems unlikely as this all occurs outdoors and the exhaust is a good ten feet from the air intake. Finally, the world is full of campers running CO detectors, so your comment has me adding that to the equipment list. Thanks.

    As for reply #5, “hanging out in your running car for hours with the AC running is wrong, for countless reasons.” Hi Mendal, I looked for your “countless” list of reasons but, sorry to say, I didn’t see it. I’m guessing that’s because you couldn’t think of any.

    As for reply #6, “I wonder if the mpg’s and pollution are better that way” from bisco. Without question Toyota engineers know what they are doing and have designed this to best function in its primary application: driving around in a world full of regulations. Likely you nailed it with MPGs & emissions. But this car has all the functionality needed to also be used for a comfortable rest stop in hot weather.

    MPGs is not a consideration. Actually, the car is not moving, so the MPGs is infinity! Emissions, not an issue either, since this action is not part of the EPA testing. As for me taking my “v”-nap and ruining the planet with my car, well, over in the truck parking lot there are dozens of 18 wheelers cranking away all night. So please, go bother them first.
     
  7. Boston Jim

    Boston Jim Active Member

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    Since the engine turns on when the traction battery is at 40% it only charges up to 50% before turning off, my guess is a comprimise to save energy. If you finally get out of traffic but the car just hit below 40% and started charging your stuck with it on until it hits 50%, it would suck if it has to charge all the way up to 60% before turning off. Now the PIP range would be different.
     
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  8. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Just a guess that the optimization schedule is for vehicle mpg, not fixed power generation.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i wonder if the japanese prius with 100 volts out for power outage behaves in the same way. i guess if it's not waking you up, it doesn't really matter.
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Actually MPG is zero with the engine consuming gas with no distance covered. At least you have one of the lowest emissions cars out there, which is the primary reason they exist. California set a mandate years ago on emissions and Toyota took it seriously.
     
  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Have you tried leaving in the car in 'Park' and Ready, and then just shoving down on the gas pedal until the engine fires up to 'force charge' the battery? Then hold the pedal down as long as it takes. I believe this is how it was done in prior models, but don't know specifically about your model.
     
  12. pking51

    pking51 New Member

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    H-mmm, interesting.

    As for reply #8, “… my guess is a compromise to save energy …” from Boston Jim. My guess is you are correct – and also to reduce emissions in an EPA test. That makes sense for a car that is moving, or wants to.

    As the car is programmed to (one way or another when traveling) charge up the traction battery to 6, natural assumption was it would do that when not moving. But, your point applies when stuck in traffic: no sense in running the ICE more than absolutely needed. And it clearly runs this same program even when the car is stopped: AND IN PARK. So, I’m guessing Toyota engineers couldn’t imagine parked in 90+ degree heat and
    desiring a full charge up.

    As for reply #9, from Air_Boss, nice pict you have there. I can’t tell for sure, but that looks like a Porsche 908 Spyder, one of the best race cars ever built. I saw 908 (coupes) run at Watkins Glen in the ‘60s. They were just beautiful to watch.

    As for reply #10, “… if it's not waking you up, it doesn't really matter.” from bisco. The sound and vibration of a 4-cyl ICE running at 1050 rpm is about as close to a baby’s lullaby as you can get for me. It’s the transition (startup and even the shutdown) that disturbs. Running the charge up to 6 on each startup would be ideal. However, since the Priuschat brain trust did not come back with something like, “Just push xxx button 3 times,” there appears to be no easy way to tell it to do that.

    As for reply #11,“Actually MPG is zero” from rjparker, you are correct. A senior moment there – thinking consumption per mile and writing the opposite. Not always able to keep my dyslexia in check.

    As for reply #12,“Have you tried leaving in the car in 'Park' and Ready, and then just shoving down on the gas pedal” from fuzzy1, no, I haven’t. <long pause>

    Now I have; very interesting. Power on in “Park,” now in “Ready,” (battery shows 3 bars): nothing. Mash the gas pedal. ICE starts and zooms up to 3,500 rpm. Wow! But, best not hold that at 85º (showing on the Ultragauge). So I drove around and warmed it up to 180º. Oops that charged up the battery. Drove around on EV to drain the bat (back to 3 bars); stopped and put it in “Park” with AC on; sat and waited.

    After awhile the bat. charge droped to 2 bars & the ICE started charging it (it settled in at ~1050-1150 rpms, temp started at 175º). After a few min. bat rose to 3 bars and the ICE shut off (temp up to 180+º). I mashed the gas pedal and sure enough the ICE started again. Backing off it would run at as low as about 1500 rpm. Below that it shuts off. Unfortunately the “Energy” display showed no current going to the battery. After 5-10 min. the bat. dropped back to 2 bars, confirming that this does not charge the battery further (temp. up to 190º). Very interesting and thanks for the suggestion, but no cigar.

    Bottom line here (so far), looks like I’ll have to ask Toyota to enhance the programming. Should be easy: find the code that tells it to charge up to 3 bars (as usual), but if “PWR mode” button is “on” and car is in “Park” then charge it up to 6 bars instead. Nothing complicated about that. Of course, if this program is burned into ROM, well -- then this “enhancement” is not so easy after all.
     
  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I know I've heard of 'force charging' in the Prius, so did a bit of searching here. Now I see several posts pointing to putting the car in Drive (not Park), holding down the brake hard, then hitting the gas.

    Here is a 'how to' thread, with video: Force Charging for Maintenance | PriusChat
    The video specifically mentions (and shows) that it doesn't work in Park.
     
  14. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    A 908/2, actually. Jo Siffert getting aboard at the start of the 1969 Le Mans 24 Hours..
     
    #14 Air_Boss, Jul 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Obtuse Angler

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    1. Plays havoc with a fuelly icon.
    2. Wasteful of gasoline.
    3. Needlessly pollutes the surrounding air.
    4. Against the law in some areas.

    Yeah I know, you're in Florida. We're getting more than our usual share of heat up recently tho. Crazy long heat wave, little or no rain too.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sorry o/p, i didn't mean 'you' in post #10. i meant that they have the ability to use their car as a generator in japan. so, it's probably out in the driveway where it wouldn't wake them up.:)
     
  17. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    It have enough battery to run the AC for 60-90 minutes without starting the engine to recharge. you'll get maybe 6 minutes before it goes down to 2 bars if you're lucky.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yesterday, in 87 degree weather, mild humidity, parked in the shade, my pip battery was dropping like a rock, while i waited for my wife to come out of the store.
     
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