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Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by fruzzetti, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. fruzzetti

    fruzzetti Customization-Obsessed

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    So I have had this question rolling around in my head for a long time, as I've known many people with differing preferences on this.

    If you are a doctor, health care practitioner, or carry a title of nobility, or a professor (et cetera), you generally have the right to be addressed using a title inclusive of your status.

    Many of my colleagues appreciate being addressed as such, while many of my other colleagues prefer it be avoided.

    What is your preference, and why?

    ~ dan ~
     
  2. sulman

    sulman Introspectator

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    Your Royal Highness,

    No. This site seems polarized enough.

    Sincerely,

    His Excellency,

    Sulman the Powerful
     
  3. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    I think it was in an older book of etiquette that I read that, unless one is a medical doctor or a minister with a current congregation, one should not use the associated honorium with one's name... it is being a bit of a poser. One should merely graciously acknowledge it when someone else brings it up, and then brush it aside. It makes you appear much less stuck on yourself.

    Naturally, anyone that is of royal blood will have their titles used in any and all formal occasions, and if they would like to dispense with them in casual, intimate settings, that is their prerogative.
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    If you mean 'here', as opposed to real life, I'd say the user name is fine. Unless, of course, someone has revealed their real name and seems ok with people using it.
     
  5. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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    As someone who just recently became a "fake" doctor (PhD), my feeling is that the "Dr." title should primarily be used for "real" doctors (i.e. MDs, DDSs, etc.) For example, if someone is sending me a Christmas card, birthday card or letter, I would never expect them to use the "Dr." title. In fact, any title might be a bit weird, but "Mr." would be fine with me.

    There is, of course, an exception to this. I think that in professional settings it is appropriate to use the title. For example, if I were going to give a talk at a college or was applying for a job elsewhere, I would generally expect to be addressed as "Dr." in any official correspondence. I wouldn't be disturbed if I weren't, but it seems much more appropriate to be addressed as "Dr." when it's in the context of your expertise.

    That said, I found that shortly after I became a "Dr," all of my friends and family used the title for several months; perhaps with the purpose of annoying me as much as anything else. :)

    It's funny this should come out now. When I was home for the holidays, my mom pointed out this Miss Manners article to me.
     
  6. fruzzetti

    fruzzetti Customization-Obsessed

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    The reason I ask is because it's been my experience that many Ph.D. holders (other than myself) and Ed.D. holders request, in academic, professional, or some even in personal circles, that others address them as "Doctor." What I notice is that in academia, those doctors of hard sciences more frequently ask that you address them by <first name> and those doctors of humanities more frequently request a salutation of title.

    I hate being called anything but "Dan;" as I teach high school, my students call me, "Mr. F." But I think if I were a medical practitioner I would still feel this way. When I taught and tutored at CSU Hayward, I asked people to call me "Dan."

    A couple colleagues of mine in education are Dr. Michael Burger and his wife Lynn. They co-founded a company that writes amazing scholastic management software. They address each other as Dr. Mike and Dr. Lynn, which is cute but leaves others wondering how they prefer to be addressed. Mike and I have always just called each other by first name, but it's still curious.

    Very curious.

    ~ dan ~
     
  7. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I prefer Supreme Dictator of the Universe for Life but am rarely addressed as such. I have been addressed as Documentation Goddess and Queen of the Library.

    I also answer to "hey, you".

    I prefer my students address me as Ms. I'll also accept Miss, Mrs, and Lady.

    I have a master's degree and would like an address denoting that accomplishment. Unfortunately there is none and no way I'll be getting a PhD so Dr. is out.

    I did work at a Jr. High where one of the faculty had a PhD in English Lit and students and staff referred to her as Dr. "X" at her request. Her feeling was that she worked hard for her PhD and teachers get little enough respect so she was going to be referred to by a title she had earned. I had no problem with that and don't consider it a violation of any ettiquette. If there were a way I could be called "Master " I'd opt for that. I'll have two master's degree come May.
     
  8. fruzzetti

    fruzzetti Customization-Obsessed

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    This is interesting and I must have missed it because I was posting a message in reply to the previous post. I'm especially intrigued by your assessment of "fake" doctor versus "real" doctor.

    We have many, many words in the English language for a person who keeps you healthy (and for the many different specialties under this general heading).

    I believe the word Doctor is from the Latin "docere" or "to teach." In that context the physician does not always operate in the capacity of a doctor / teacher but rather as a truly masterful scientist in the subject matter of the human body and its ailments.

    And all these people have degrees that state "Doctor of ______;" ours say "Philosophy" while I've seen "Dentistry," "Veterinary Medicine" and plenty of others.

    So the whole thing is just so inconsistent to me, and everything is bizarrely context-sensitive. I don't know what I'd argue, but I bet you and I both just go by our first names whenever possible?

    ~ dan ~
     
  9. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    Wait, what was the question?
     
  10. cyberstout

    cyberstout Alan & Margarete

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    A friend of mine was elected to the position of Town Justice a few years back. He told me we could call him, "Your Assholiness".
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    In the work environment I prefer that people call me Dr. Fusco...in particular nurses and others working under me in the department. I guess it's sort of a military rank kind of thing whereas it's a reminder that if I say "jump" then I need every one to respect that and do my bidding at that moment.

    That said, several nurses whom I've worked with for longer time periods refer to me as Evan or "Fusco" sans the doctor title when we're behind the desk and out of patient ear shot. Some of the nurses were recently reprimanded for not using the doctor title and I felt bad that that occured as I think that having a more personal level of comfort b/w docs and nurses can improve the working environment as long as the boundries are managed carefully.

    Outside the workplace I'm rather uncomfortable with being called "Doctor Fusco". "Doc" is fine for a slang, but I'd rather just Evan for those who know me. I really hate when people introduce me to strangers as a doctor...I just prefer being myself and allowing the fact that I'm a physician emerge in the course of normal conversation.

    Now, the PhD. dilema... In med school most of our instructors were PhDs and we always gave them the respect of the title. In formal situations I think that the title 'doctor' is appropriate...the school superintedent giving an interview or public speach, etc. My mom has a Phd in pharmacy and I think she'd be completely uncomfortable being called doctor.

    If someone with a PhD, outside the academic environment, expects to be called doctor b/c of their PhD I respect that, but it usually tells me a lot about their personality and the kind of person they are that they need a title to justify who they are.
     
  12. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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    Well, "fake" and "real" are mostly intended to be tongue-in-cheek and self deprecating. I guess I'm mostly just commenting on what the cultural norms are. In general, in the US, if you tell someone, "Hi. I'm Dr. ______", they will assume that you're a medical doctor. Because of this, I think that when someone who has a PhD or EdD introduces themselves in a social situation with the title "Dr." it is likely to confuse the conversation and make the "Doctor" further explain why they have that title. When this level of explanation is necessary, the person who felt the need to use this title can appear pretentious.

    As you guessed, I do prefer to be addressed by my first name by everyone. My feeling is that I would like to earn the respect of people that I meet as opposed to imposing it on them by insisting on being addressed by some title.

    As I said before, I do think there are exceptions to this. If I am giving a talk or given an award or applying for a grant, I do generally expect to be addressed by my title. But, again, this is just convention.


    Yeah. What he said.
     
  13. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    i think we have a total of 6 phds in our work group of 14. we are all on a first name basis, except for the younger folks when we address the emeriti, and msot of us with one socially withdrawn phd.

    on a familiar basis and outside the workplace, i don't like the title hanging over my head. as hard as i'm beating myself for those stupid 3 letters at the end of my name, i think it would feel weird to be called "doctor" all the time.

    in the professional sense, i haven't really thought that one out yet. i have 12 months, a ton of western blots, a bunch of microscopy, and a dissertation and defense to manage before i get there. :eek:
     
  14. madler

    madler Member

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    I have a Ph.D. in Physics. I use Dr. on my business card and resume. Otherwise not.

    Sometimes people I know call me Dr. Adler just to be funny.
     
  15. samiam

    samiam Antipodean Prius Poster

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    Surely the "correct" (polite) use of honorifics is context-dependent.

    MDs are Dr to patients & nurses, but to colleagues you use first names unless there is a large disparity in senority (calling a colleague Dr can be used to distance onself or even be used as an insult). But Evan, as you may already realise, for house surgeons overseas the correct form of address is "Mr", calling them Dr is an insult, something you will have to get used to if indeed you go to OZ for a while.

    PhDs in North America and many other countries should be addressed as "Dr" by their students, unless they are a professor, in which case they are addressed as "Professor". Colleagues use first names, unless again thare is a large disparity in senority. (In NZ there is pretty much a knee-jerk rejection of rank, asking a student here to address me as professor or Dr would just make me a pretentious twit.)

    Outside the hospital or the halls of academe it should be Mr or first names, unless the person is trying to sell you something or the person is adressing you in writing -- in both these cases the correct and full honorific should be used (in the written form it is usually the full name followed by credentials).

    I have also noticed a gender difference in who gets called Dr, my wife used to get "Mrs" a lot more than Dr or Professor which used to rankle her to no end.

    In work environments other than Hospitals and Universities there were times when I wanted some "authority" behind my words such as when speaking to general officers, a company executive, or a large audience, then I wanted them to see the letters behind my name and to be introduced as "Dr". Other times when I wanted to learn something or get something done at the working level I would never even hint that I had a higher degree as I didn't want the social distance that that can produce.

    PS. I used to book airline tickets as "Dr" 'cause you got treated better. Not any longer.
     
  16. passnthru

    passnthru Average Member

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    I'm not a great fan of titles used as a means of address. I've been a clergyperson, ordained in the United Methodist Church, for over thirty years. I've served as a parish pastor, counselor, educator, chaplain, and currently as the director of a hospital spiritual care department. My preference has always been that I be addressed by my name, "Nick."

    In the beginning this was probably due to my general rebellion against authority and my poorly developed sense of professional identity. Over the past fifteen years or so I have discovered that using informal address helps me in my work, more often than not. Of course if a person is clearly more comfortable referring to me as "Reverend" (not really a proper form of spoken address), "Pastor," or "Chaplain," I'm not going to fight with them about it. Heck, on the very rare occasions when I wear a clerical collar, somebody almost always calls me "Father." I just smile and nod.

    Titles suggest things about a person professionally and, sometimes, personally, but they guarantee nothing. Also, others will bring their own personal meaning, both good and bad, to whatever title you boast.

    I've come to believe that the titles I've earned over the years will only take me so far with others - and sometimes in a direction that I neither anticipate nor desire. Sure...I've got skills, talent, and specialized knowledge, but unless I offer these to others with respect and recognition of our shared humanity, my titles aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. Who people are is much more important than what they are.

    OK...need to go back to bed and try again to sleep. These long nights make me a little goofy. Perhaps you've noticed.

    Nick
     
  17. mldoc

    mldoc Junior Member

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    My mother has her Ed.D. She goes by Dr. at work, both with her students and staff. In her personal life however, she is Mrs.

    My minister is "father" to his parishioners, but just goes by his regular name most of the time when talking to others, even if it is in a professional capacity.

    I had a professor who had his Ph.D in Differential Calculus. Per his request, we all called him David. For the record, all of the professors that I had for the core classes of my major, at two schools, were addressed on a first name basis. This seems to be the standard for entertainment-related programs. The professors are expected to be thought of as the students professional colleagues, not put up on a pedestal as "professor."

    I think title is really a matter of personal preference for the title holder, assuming they hold a title which one could reasonably expect to be addressed by.