Pricing Prius legally (what's the value)...

PM'd you there, Rick

 

As for estimating the value of a used car, I would do what the insurance company does in case of a wreck. If your car was totalled in an accident, they would be giving you the retail value of the vehicle towards its replacement. With the 02, like you said, that's easy. Just use the retail numbers. What you may have to do, is get with your insurance agent, and have him research the value of the '04. They have to have some kind of formula to go by when they have limited information on brand new model releases. Do make sure though, that they understand why you need this information, so as not to set any flags on your policy.

 

I suggest that you go to two Toyota dealers and ask for a written offer to purchas your Prius, then average the two.

 

You could look at the first year depreciation for each of the last 3 years of Prius and use a prorated fraction of the average or the trend for the 04. It's not based in law, but it is objective, repeatable, and within the bounds of fairness. Any number of schemes might jump out once the data is in front of you.

 

That seems fair to me. It's not a trade-in situation.. it's a sale situation. Trade-ins are a specific case where you get extra value because you're buying a replacement car at the same time. I can't see how someone could argue that a price quote from a real Toyota dealer wouldn't be fair, especially if you got more than one. If that's not a fair indication of what a car could be sold for in the market, what is?

Alternatively, I'll bet there's an insurace-industry-standard way to compute depreciation on a generic car.

 

What is the fair value of anything? It is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. To find out what your 2004 Prius is worth you would have to sell it. To sell it you would have expences such as advertising, you may have a trade in and you may have to get the buyer financed. If your Prius isn't perfect you may have some touch up and detailing to do. If you have two Toyota dealers bid on it, that is real money, not pie in the sky money.
That goes for your other Prius as well. What there cash value is and what you think it should be are two different things. I under stand you want to be fair and this would be fair.

 

I think you're getting the terminologies backwards. Trade in value is FAR less than retail. Look at any of the automobile appraisal sites online. They wil give you two or three numbers, one being trade in, another being TMV (true market value) and the final being retail. TMV is a guide for those who are trying to sell a car privately to realize more of the cars value. Trade-in is more of a wholesale number that is assumed that the car in average condition would be worth if it were to be auctioned. Retail is of course, what you would hope to see on the used car window sticker, not that any used car stealership wouldn't inflate THAT number now, would they. :wink:

 

With some folks paying over MSRP for used Prius because of the extremely long waiting lists for new ones, the true market value of yours (what you could actually get if you were to sell it) is probably MSRP.

You could argue that the depreciation on a Prius should be similar to that of a Camry, and find out the percentage depreciation of a Camry with the same miles on it, and do the math.

The other side will probably make the argument I suggested in the first paragraph.

You could reply that MSRP is an unethical and predatory response to a shortage situation and that the car should not be valued based on an unethical sale method.

Whoever has the best lawyer will win.

 

I'll try not to be insulted by the insinuation that I'm so stupid I don't know what "trade-in" means.

There are three basic ways to sell a car. One is trade-in to a dealer, the second is sale to a dealer, and the third is sale to a private party.

Sale to a dealer is the most reasonable to use in this case. There are no real bluebook or other values established for the 2004 Prius yet.. you can't buy it new, let alone used.

Trade-in to a dealer is complicated by other factors, such as the attempt of the sales person to get your business for a new car. They have a lot of numbers they can fudge around to make it seem like you're getting a good deal, and one of those is the trade-in value. We traded in my wife's piece-of-crap car, $400 bluebook value, for $1000 a few years ago. Selling outright to a dealer is the same as trade-in, but without the added complications.

Sale to a private party is the way to get the most money. However, there's no established market price, and offering the car for sale just to see what people will pay would be completely unethical if you had no intention of following through.

So, I reiterate my point that the amount offered by car dealers is the best measure available in this case.

 

Reread jasond comment above, he knows what he is talking about.

 

I would think that the value of an asset for the purpose of divorce proceedings is it's "liquidation value", what you would get for it if you hired someone to sell it. E.g. a home's liquidation value is it's market value minus real estate agent fees of 6%, and closing costs of a couple percent.

Similarly, the amount that a car dealer is willing to pay seems like the right value to use. When you sell your car to a car dealer you are essentially hiring him or her to sell it for you.

The trade-in value (also sometimes called wholesale) value in the books therefore seems like the best value to use.

Getting actual quotes from a dealer for what they would pay to buy it might be a more accurate means, since they will know the market and condition of your car better than the guidebooks would. Of course you need to avoid confusing the deal with a simultaneous purchase.

 

Just want you to know that I have learned much from your Prius Posts, Thanks. As my name implies I am a retired auto dealer, 2 Nissan, Pontiac, Ford and 50% of a Toyota deal. I am sorry that you are in a legal situation that needs the value of your Vehicles. Many times over the 25 years I was a dealer my managers and I were ask to determine the value of vehicles. Keep in mind that if you have an adversarial attorney he will complain no matter how you value your assets. He will not prevail with having several dealers quote you a buy price. My advice, and not offended if you do not take it, is to visit two Dealers, be up front why you need it in writing or you will not get it. Dealers hate to give anything in writing because they know that a customer will take it to a competing dealer who will give another $50.00 to get the deal.



Good luck guy, and keep up the excellent posts



Allen

 

:iagree

 

Rick,
Sorry to hear of this unfortunate circumstance. I agree with other posters that you need to watch your back if this is not amicable and your wife's lawyer delights in squeezing out every possible penny. A friend of mine was so devasted when his wife decided she didn't want to be married anymore he couldn't think straight and pretty much said OK to whatever and his lawyer didn't fight much. She doesn't work, got the investments, alimony for life with annual COLA. He has to carry disability insurance, works 2 jobs and never gets his visition. Don't let it happen to you.

The fact some (FEW) people are emotionally desperate to own one shouldn't affect the actual value of your car. The Package #n they paid $3000 over MSRP is still worth the same amount today as your package #n purchased at MSRP. I think the dealer's purchase price is likely a bit low, as they will want to make a profit when they sell it but a private sale should be lower than the dealer's used price. Since there isn't a used market for the '04s yet, the dealers might be willing to give you their purchase and sale price and you can average the two.