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Prince George Boy Dies After Bacteria From Tooth Spread to Brain

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Beryl Octet, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    Our health care system is the best in the world... if you've got money.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7022702116.html

    Twelve-year-old Deamonte Driver died of a toothache Sunday.

    A routine, $80 tooth extraction might have saved him.

    If his mother had been insured.

    If his family had not lost its Medicaid.

    If Medicaid dentists weren't so hard to find.
     
  2. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    That's tragic, but especially so, since the ultimate cost of his medical treatments could have provided many years of adequate medical coverage to many children.
     
  3. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 28 2007, 09:19 AM) [snapback]397759[/snapback]</div>
    Thats really sad, but com'mon $80.00 Most dentists wil let you make payments on work thats been done or going to be done with or without ins. :mellow:

    I would say the mother should be held accountible or at the very least charged with neglect for not taking care of her child.... :angry:
     
  4. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    Always a mix of personal responsibility is required. But for a poor family that has another child with seemingly much more urgent dental problems, $80 can be a huge amount, and is nothing to laugh at.

    Whether or not much of our nation is governed under Christian dogma, we should all still be doing our best to help out those who are less fortunate. I do my small part, but this story made me feel very selfish.
     
  5. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    that's downright horrible...
     
  6. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Feb 28 2007, 11:30 AM) [snapback]397843[/snapback]</div>
    I dont think religion is comming into play here, I have a more jaded outlook than most here on PC because I see all kinds of people on the streets. Most of the people I see in secion 8 housing dont want to work but would rather sit back and take hand-outs like WIK & Welfare and some will work just enough hours so they do not loose those hand outs. ;)

    Again If you walk into a dentists office in need of life or death work most will do it and worry about the money later....... Like I said most will even work with you depending on what you make. Ive seen $5-$15 payment plans.. I guess it would come down to how important your child is to you even if your doing the other child first, I guess they didnt brush their teeth.... <_< :(
     
  7. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 28 2007, 06:19 AM) [snapback]397759[/snapback]</div>
    It is a shame about the boy. That would be a tragic loss as a parent. I wonder how long this had been bothering him (sorry - didn't have a chance to read the story). Anyway, the problem in finding Medicaid dentists is that nobody wants to take the low reimbursement rates. This is, ultimately, what nationalized health care will get you (that is - a shortage of docs willing to see patients at ridiculously low reimbursement rates). Not saying what we have now works well, but I think there is a better solution out there -- something different from our current system but not "single payer" (i.e., taxpayer funded) healthcare.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Many folks have insurance up the wazoo & still fall by the way side via bacteria. Just a few years ago I bumped into a heavy machine, didn't even break the skin. A few hours later I'm in the hospital out of my head in pain. Elbow and forearm the size of a football. Staff infection. Nearly died. The hospital would have taken me in with or without ins.
     
  9. saechaka

    saechaka Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 28 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]397870[/snapback]</div>
    i agree. you can't blame our system as it is set up very well to help the less priveledged. more so than most people believe. i work w/low income people and can tell you then can get basic health services pretty easily, at least here in WA. i had a friend who worked at a dentist office who regularly took in people who were low income. hell, she even said the dentist can write it off pretty easily. i also had another friend who spent about a week in ER and racked up over $20k in bills and didn't have to pay a dime due to being low income at the time. he said all they asked was to show his income tax. if anything blame the mom, and stop making excuses.
     
  10. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    I didn't mean to say that religion is somehow tied to the issue, but that we should all feel compassion for someone who lost a child in this way. More specifically, what I was ineffectively trying to articulate was that religion or lack thereof should not be a limiting or deciding factor in how we treat the people who are in the most need of compassion... sort of a tangent to the discussion at hand.

    It's easy, and more comfortable for us to assume that there's nothing we could have done to help, and that it's all their responsibility. I do agree that everyone has primarily a responsibility to themselves and their families, but I think we can all understand that this woman might have been under more pressure because of the system she had to navigate, which might have led her to some bad decisions, or even an inability to make the right decision.
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Feb 28 2007, 11:21 AM) [snapback]397880[/snapback]</div>
    This child got healthcare...to the tune of $250k...and still died.

    To those who claim they can walk in and get care I suggest you try it. When I work in our Acute Care side of the ED (about 2 shifts a month) I see an average of 8 patients with dental complaints per shift. The dental community in our area refuse to see medicaid patients. They accept a handful of special request patients each, but no unrefered patients. There are a couple of free clinics in my area, but there are limitations on who they'll see and either have extended times for appointments (3 months or so) or you must wait in line all day and may or may not be seen....then they'll only care for one tooth per visit so if multiple extractions or fillings are required one must go through the same thing. And if you have a job you have to choose b/w losing your job to spend the day waiting in line or going to work to feed your family while the tooth suffers.

    While what PG04 says about some adults who choose not to work and thus 'deserve their lot' it is a cold heart and cold soul that believes the punishment for those 'sins' of the parents should be conveyed to the children of those parents. Yet our medicaid system in MO pays only $5 per visit for dental care...this simply doesn't even cover the overhead expenses of a dentist...should even one of these guys start taking patients w/ medicaid he'd be overwhelmed with patients and would stand to lose anywhere from $50-100 or more for each and every one of those patients.

    The irony is that many of these patients end up in the ED where our overhead is even higher, the cost to medicaid is higher ($15/visit), and the patient is likely to return multiple times while awaiting definative dental care. Not infrequently by the 3rd or 4th visit a dental abscess has formed and we have to send them to an oral surgeon who's surgical charges are much more than the cost of a simple extraction would have been, anesthesia is required, and specialty service charge to medicaid is higher. But understanding this requires more neurons than most of our politicians have, the math makes sense to provide higher payment to dentists for medicaid patients and reduce the ultimate cost paid to ERs and oral surgeons for a net profit.

    Now, after coming across as a bleeding heart for the first portion of the post....
    This is an exquisitely rare and unpredictible complication. While many dental problems are very painful and can cause longer term health problems brain abscesses are generally not considered a likely possibility. It's considered quite safe to put patients on antibiotics and pain meds until they can get care. It's possible that even if the kid had had full insurance coverage that his appt might have been long enough that this complication would have developed anyway.
     
  12. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Feb 28 2007, 01:33 PM) [snapback]397922[/snapback]</div>

    Do you think the mother has any responsibility in this tragic case? I wonder what the state of his dental hygeine was. I wonder how long he had been sick for and the state of the tooth when he was eventually seen. This is a disaster - but i do not think that the "state" is capable of monitoring every kids dental health. A truly tragic story - i wonder if the mother could have prevented this or at least acted quicker.
     
  13. desynch

    desynch Die-Hard Conservative

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    Don't most employers provide health insurance to its employees?

    I love how liberals just perpetuate how leeches feed off of the system. "Oh you don't want to work? Here is some money to keep you houses and fed. Oh, since you don't work you need healthcare? No problem, here ya go! .. Oh, since you spent the money we gave you for not working on crack, here are some food stamps so you can buy food."

    Life isn't fair. Get over it.
     
  14. saechaka

    saechaka Member

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    here's an article on a hospital in WA that provided charity health care. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...ergreen01e.html like i said previously, having working with and advocating for low income for the past 5 years. the majority have adequate access to services here in WA. what i see happening more often than not is that either they don't want services or don't want to put in the effort to get services. this is just my experience here in WA
     
  15. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 1 2007, 08:29 AM) [snapback]398503[/snapback]</div>
    Not as many as you think.
     
  16. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 1 2007, 08:29 AM) [snapback]398503[/snapback]</div>
    Wow, you need to get some qualified help to take care of your extremely anti-social behavior and labeling antics.

    There is a alot more going on in these systems than you must comprehend. Being the product of the life you seem to despise I can tell you truthfully that not everyone acts like you describe and are indeed need of help. Hand-outs are the not the key, reforms and education are. Again, think of the larger picture here and work to create solutions that solves multiple problems at once. Bitching about the effects (people) of a poorly thought out system does no one any good. Before you even try to implicate me as a mouthy liberal who doesn't walk the walk, I'll show you who I work with when time between classes and other projects permit.

    Literacy for Environmental Justice

    Americorps Foster Mentoring Project

    And I look forward to working with my friend's husband in any way I can. :) Chris Daly - District 6 San Fransisco
     
  17. desynch

    desynch Die-Hard Conservative

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    The help you provide is commendable, but it is absolutely undeniable that the system is broke because people take advantage of it.

    Think about this for a minute..

    Out of all the people on Welfare.. I'm sure plenty of them are capable of working. Those that aren't capable, this idea doesn't apply to them. - Ok, so everyone that CAN work, should be given the jobs that "Americans Dont Want". This would "solve" the "illegal immigrant" problem, as the jobs would be taken by Americans (that need the jobs) and welfare wouldn't be sucked dry!

    Kills 2 birds with one stone.

    Those that refuse to work don't get welfare. They don't get to suck off the government teet because they're lazy, especially with all the jobs out there being taken by illegal immigrants.

    Just a theory..
     
  18. saechaka

    saechaka Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 4 2007, 01:08 AM) [snapback]399799[/snapback]</div>
    believe it or not, it's actually happening here in WA. probly not to the extent your talking about or wishing for. http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/...p;query=welfare
     
  19. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 3 2007, 10:08 PM) [snapback]399799[/snapback]</div>

    We agree that not everyone using the system is exloiting it.

    Another idea is to get better educational systems, both acedemic and vocational, in the high-risk areas and get more of these people to become a part of the work force. This would eventully free up more resources which could be allocated to better enforcement of welfare assignments to ensure we catch more of the "lazy folk" who want nothing more than to life for free. It is kind of like spending a bit more money now to create better school breakfast and lunch systems for children and reaping the rewards later when our costs of obesity (or poor dietary) related health costs plummet. Or the money spent on behavioral problems associated with children when a simple good diet can fix many of them. Psychologists and counsilers cost a hell of a lot more than a good breakfast and some proper attention and care. Screw working overtime to buy that Lexus SUV, go spend quality time with your children.