Prius for the Environment?

I am not an environmental engineer, environmental chemist, or anything of the sort, but I did buy the Prius in large part for its reduced environmental impact. I, too, thought hard about a smaller, cheaper car with good MPG. There are a number of things to consider:

- Obviously, green technology is advancing rapidly and will continue to do so considering the incoming president. Prius can be modified to incorporate these new technologies (see: Hymotion), a conventional auto cannot.
- Much has been made of the impact of the nickel in the batteries, as well as the energy use and environmental impact inherent in manufacturing the hybrid drive. Rarely is the opposite considered: how many catalysts, rare elements, solvents, ect. are used; how much energy is used, and how much environmental destruction is inherent in oil exploration, transport, and refining? The oil you burn does not just produce the CO2 and NOx that emerges from your tailpipe, it was likely shipped here in a huge tanker burning bunker oil, refined with the use of numerous chemicals and huge amounts of energy, and then trucked hundreds or even thousands of miles to your local station. It neccessitated the construction of refining equipment, gasoline tankers, drilling equipment, ect. If it was drilled off a coastline, said coast probably recieves thousands of gallons of spilled oil a year. In short, reducing your consumption of oil not only reduces your car's emissions but pollution and energy consumption throughout a huge supply chain.
- Using decent driving techniques, most people can do much better than the EPA rating. While this is true of all cars, the Prius offers more opportunity for savings, thus widening the gap between a conventional's real-life MPG and a hybrid's.

There are also non-environmental reasons to chose a Prius instead of a smaller car like the Fit:
- Prius does more (has more storage + passenger space, is probably safer, ect) than a much smaller car which still isnt' as efficient.
- Prius is just a really cool car. Fun to drive and especially to hypermile in.
- Hybrids retain their resale value longer than conventional autos.
- Many localities have LEV incentives. Los Angeles and Santa Monica offer free metered parking, for example.

 

yhkoh,

Welcome to PriusChat.

+1 on shtinkypuppie's post. It is as good a thumbnail response as you're
likely to get.

A note of caution: Your brief post includes the two topics that trolls most
often use as entry points on this forum; the Prius' environmental impact,
and the difference in cost, or recovery of that cost, between a hybrid and
conventional vehicles. So, some responses may be, how should I say it, well
a little hard edged. It'll be up to you to demonstrate your good intentions.

Inevitably, discussions of the Prius' environmental impact digress to a
comparison with the Hummer. You can avoid a whole lot of bad feelings by
doing the Hummer vs. Prius research on your own -- you'll pick up a lot of
other environmental info too.

We have two search functions. One is in the blue bar at the top of the page.
One below the irritating Sharp ad. This one is a Google search. So, just type
Hummer in either one. The rest is up to you.

 

Here are some details worth knowing:
1) The Prius regenerative braking greatly reduces the frequency of brake pad replacements. That is a lot of junk not dumped into the air and trash.
2) The MPG meter not only changes driving habits, it provides a reminder for many to check the tire inflation. Small detail with big payoff.
3) The Prius is big enough to haul a great may payloads that require trucks for the same equivalent car (e.g. Camry size). Prius owners know this but Prius critics scoff at the mentioning of this. It can flat out haul big items....at 50 mpg.

Great environmental payoff. You save money in the process.

 

Several reasons, fuel savings chief among them. Also factors were its proven reliability, practicality and overall economy. The relative novelty of the hybrid technology was a small factor. I'm not an environmentalist as most environmentalists would probably describe themselves.

There is no debate among the informed and unbiased. The only debate comes from those who choose to believe crap like "the Hummer is better for the environment." The others have already responded to that adequately here, and I too suggest you search for where that and other similar notions have been completely and resoundingly debunked.

The Prius costs more than many cars on the road. An Escalade costs more than a Rav4. So? It's apples to oranges. If your sole focus is total cost of ownership, the Fit is probably a better purchase. So is the Yaris or the Chevy Aveo -- both among the least expensive cars to own as judged by Consumer Reports in its April issue. But they are in the small car category. Prius is judged the least expensive family car to own. I can ride more comfortably in it, my 6' teenagers can ride more comfortably in its backseat (they wouldn't fit in the Fit), and I can carry more stuff in its hatchback than in most small or family cars out there. Factor in several standard features that are available only as options in some cars, especially economy cars, and again, you have no comparison. So it depends on what you want.

 

Quote of the week...

 

I like the cleaner air that comes with owning a Prius (I don't buy into all the hoopla of global warming) that said; digest this: I just finished a 1200 mile trip with 4 (older) adults along with the luggage that goes with them. None of us are exactly skinny but enough said on that. We all rode very comfortably the entire trip and we averaged 48mpg. Pick a car-any car- that can do that? The Prius does not cost any more than any other similar equipped car. Too often people look at a decked out Prius and then compare it to a stripped down honda; chevy; ford or whatever. If your serious about the Prius I can tell you you cannot do better at this time than this car; pure and simple. Most people think the Prius is a small car but it is not. Sit in the back seat; check out the rear storage area; you will find more value in this car than any other and that isn't even considering the environmental advantages of cleaner air, etc! Iv'e had mine over a year and a half and have put gas in it and changed the oil at the prescribed intervals. PERIOD! Try that with a ford chrysler or gm product! I expect to have this over ten years and I usually go through cars pretty quick. Good luck on whatever you decide on but rest assured you cannot go wrong with a Prius.

 

I think the answer may change over the long haul.
Even if dollar savings due to economy is the primary reason for buying the Prius in the first place - for me the environmental arguement took over. Now that gas is well under $2.00 a gallon, I have not changed the way I drive. Money is no longer the motivational force - it has become being a "cleaner" citizen.

 

In term of CO2 emission, it pollutes more to produce Prius due to the extra electronics and the 99 lbs HV battery pack. By the 3rd oil change, Prius will have lower cumulative emission than a comparable non-hybrid car.

 

Actually, I'm wondering where the heck is the OP in this one sided "conversation?"

 

Probably getting some sleep.

 

My Prius just turned 1 year old two weeks ago. Buying it was the best automotive decision I've ever made.

1) I did consider the environmental impact of my car purchase, but that was not the primary factor. Long-term savings was.

2) My other choice was the Honda Fit. After driving both, the Prius won hands-down. The ride was smoother (smoother than any other car on the road, I'd venture to say), quieter (definitely quieter than anything else, except a plug-in electric car), and the car felt safer.

3) This forum helped me tremendously when I first got the car. Is there a similarly enthusiastic, geeky (oops--I mean knowledgeable) group of Fit owners?

Go for it! You'll never regret it--and remember, gasoline prices won't stay around $2 a gallon.

 

Before buying my car this year, I noticed the little 'Smog Emissions Information' sticker showing the Smog Index at 0.09 for the Prius where the average new vehicle is 0.37.

I sat in a Fit for several minutes at the SF auto show. It seemed very nice with plenty of headroom front and back. No doubt it is a fantastic car. They are selling very well. But, it's not a hybrid electric. Get stuck in a pile of traffic, and you'll be idling away fuel and polluting just like most vehicles.

 

Repeating and adding to what Tony just said, the key problem for any new use of electricity is that the incremental capacity needed will come ~100% from fossil fuels such as coal and natural gas (excluding those individuals that put in wind turbines and/or solar in sufficient quantity.) Fossil fuel is where the swing capacity is. Hydroelectric, wind, and solar are going to operate at whatever their sustained output is once they are built. They are capital intensive, but much cheaper to operate. Ditto for nuke plants as I understand it.

 

Sorry, some quite misleading statements there. The same number of gas cars are way more polluting than EVs even if the majority of the electricity was generated from coal. At 50% coal, EVs are significantly less polluting.

EVs would have to become fairly common/numerous before the grid would need any increase capacity. That increased capacity would most surely be renewable for two reasons: 1) the need to reduce emissions and 2) the price for renewables is dropping and the price on pollution (carbon) will rise. There will be no dramatic increase in the burning of coal.

 

I agree with this, but it's also worth pointing out that EVs have a potential to be clean that ICE-based cars do not. In other words, even though EVs consume a lot of fossil fuels today (via coal-fired electric plants), there is the potential for them to be much cleaner than that if you install solar panels on your roof (which is even more cost effective if you have an EV) or when the utility companies start to bring more renewable energy online. The utility companies can make your car much greener by upgrading their production methods; this is something that will not happen in a gasoline-powered car.

On a related topic, do people know which of these two are more enviornmentally sound? Driving a fuel-efficient gasoline powered car like the Prius or driving an EV powered by grid power generated by coal-fired plants? I don't know and would like to.

 

This bothers me a little. Getting an EV is possibly the best possible (motor) vehicle transportation option one can make, yet this post makes it sound like a half measure. It is not. (and Tony knows this with a little thought)

Right now many have more options for their power source (e.g wind) than non polluting vehicle options. Once someone has an EV, they are vastly better positioned to use electricity from a sustainable source, and many would.

Nearly everyone who is using EVs work both sides of the issue. Few (or none) of the EV drivers on this forum claim that the EV "solved" the sustainability problem, but all did it as a critical step for getting to a total solution.