Prius in the Snow?

Chains!!!!!! on my tractor but not my PriusLOL! In the snow I use my wife's Chevy Venture, my Prius stays in garage.

 

I have to agree with PAprius in that I would not put chains on the prius. If it's an option I would go with driving another vehicle on snowcovered roads. On the other hand most versions have Traction Control, VSC and ABS so perhaps it would handle ok on its own. I wouldn't expect great mileage though

 

I got my new Prius, which replaced a Corolla, in February of this year. There was no difference in driving in snow, sleet, ice than the Corolla that it replaced. I have driven my husband's Classic Prius 2003 Sedan in snowstorms also when I had to go out too because it was closer to the end of the driveway. No problem with his either. I will qualify that with the fact that if it is icy I use "B" so that the car slows when I take my foot off the gas. I wouldn't expect to get great mileage in that kind of weather anyway. BTW I have the touring with 16" wheels, his are 15". This was also done at 35/33 PSI before I increased the tire pressure too. Last year I slid into a parked car during an ice storm WITH MY COROLLA, but have yet to put one tiny mark on either of the Prii. Save the chains for the Grapevine (my Dad used to drive a truck up there years ago).

 

Ours handles fine in snow. It's the best driving, most docile snow car I've ever driven (we have VSC, which helps a lot). That said, it's not a truck or Jeep, so it can't wade through deep snow. We replaced the crappy OEM tires with Micheline MXV4+ Energy tires in the stock size, and run them year round. If I needed more traction I'd use dedicated snow tires, but not chains.

Tom

 

i live in MT and drive my prius everyday in the winter. don't shy away from the snow because its a prius. half the battle is front wheel drive and driver competence.

P.S. i haven't had to chain-up yet!

 

In general, my Prius handles well in the snow. I dumped the stock integrity's for Nokian WRs (a severe weather rated tire with low rolling resistance) that I run year round.

However, I have experienced the Prius traction control loss of power problem on a slippery surface. There's a hill near me that is not too steep. You have to come to a stop, make a right turn, and then you are virtually on the hill. I got about 75 feet, hit an icy spot, and could go nowhere. I had to back down a bit, pull into a driveway, turn around, and navigate another route.

One other PC member has mentioned that this happened on a flat surface. Apparently, the surface was icy and the car would go nowhere. To say the least, if it happens to you, it is extremely annoying especially when you are in front of a police car - like I was.

There are a few threads on PC regarding this. Some suggest new tires. Well, the WRs I bought are considered by many to be a superior tire if not one of the best all-weather tires out there. The WRs have Hakka siping, Hakka as in the famed Hakkapeliitta snow tires; therefore, I'm not listening to people who say I should be running dedicated snows. Many snow tires don't have the severe weather rating that the WRs do. So, IMHO, count tires out as a solution for this.

IMHO, traction control should redistribute power to the wheels if one is spinning. Perhaps this happens when neither tire can get traction. Or, perhaps it is a problem with Prii that have VSC as mine does. I don't know. I am seriously considering writing a letter to Toyota about this. I'm not willing to visit my nearby dealers as I have heard other PC members have done this and gotten virtually nowhere.

That said, I was in another situation this past winter where the traction control operated as it should. I was on another hill, stopped at a traffic light at a corner on a snowy day. When the light turned green, I stepped on the gas. One of the tires started slipping, however, the traction control shifted power to the other wheel and off I went. In that case, I was very happy to have the traction control.

Whether you will experience the traction control problem is hard to determine. However, you will know if you do.

 

It's the Traction Control that has caused the problem, not VSC. The later 2005 and following year models have apparently been "desensitized" according to some, so they don't get into this problem as easily.

The Traction Control is aggressive because it's easy to overspin MG1 (motorgenerator 1) if the wheels spin up too fast. This can destroy it and render the HSD system inoperative. So the Toyota engineers protected the system.

The detailed reason is running the engine (ICE) limits the speed of MG1, but if you're just sitting (ICE shuts off) and try to take off the engine can't spin up as fast as wheels on ice can, hence MG1 could be overspun.

It overspins if the ICE is not turning at wheel speeds equivalent to travelling above about 43 MPH. Hence, also in non-slippery operation, anytime you are going faster than 43 MPH the ICE must be turning.

I think I explained that clearly, but if not, ask away.

I believe chains are not recommended on the Prius, but I haven't finished reading the owners manual yet, so I'll hold off on that as a statement.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GoEco @ May 26 2007, 11:56 AM) [snapback]450409[/snapback]</div>

I live in MI and have put over 100k miles on my car since I bought it 14 months ago...both winters have been good...but I have 2 recommendations,

1. Change the tires, anything will be better than the crap it comes with. I have read some posts where a few people actually have snow tires and regular tires, or some, like myself, just switched to something like the GY triple-tread Assurance. This also fixed a lot of other handling problems inherent with small cars with crappy tires/suspension.

2. Be aware of the stupid traction control. Sometimes, when you need it most, it dies on you. It is not enough for me to get rid of the car, but it is the one thing I would change first if I was going to redesign/change something. If you aren't familiar with this problem, do a search for "traction control" and it will get you some idea.

With this in mind, realize that I still love this car and will keep driving it and recommending it...you just need to know about these things and adjust accordingly. Nobody makes a perfect car, so don't expect the prius to be.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GoEco @ May 26 2007, 11:56 AM) [snapback]450409[/snapback]</div>

It is FWD car which means it behaves OK in the snow. Snow tires help. However, climbing icy/snowy hills present problems due to traction control that loves to limit engine rpm to prevent hybrid drive damage.

 

I use snow tires and the car does just fine. No VSC here, either. Without snow tires, it would be a totally different animal.

 

I went through two Fargo, North Dakota winters before moving to Spokane. The Prius is built lower to the ground than a Jeep or SUV, and therefore it will not go through snow that is as deep as those cars can handle. But it is better than most conventional cars.

On ice the Prius is the best car I've ever driven. I did switch from the OEM tires to all-season tires, and in serious snow conditions, actual snow tires would be highly recommended. But that applies to any car.

Bottom line: For normal driving in winter conditions, your Prius is unbeatable. For off-road or for blizzard rescue work, get a 4WD with high clearance. If the snow is really deep, stay at home and wait for the snow plow to come by.

 

I have to stick my neck out, and go a little against the grain here. I will post this with a couple of disclaimers
1. I am a California driver. While I drive on ice and snow occasionally, I am not a professional like you people from places like Maine. I do, however commute over 2 mountains, and have a lot (for California) of black ice between December and February.
2. The snow wasn't the problem, it was the ice.
3. I don't have the best tires for ice - I am running Bandia Hankook Mileage plus high mileage tires, mostly because I put about 40K miles/year on and wear them out FAST.

With all that said, I recently had a very bad experience with driving my '05 on ice. I think it was a combination of the weather - temperature around 35-37F during the day and sub-20F at night, the fact that the Prius is very light, and the traction control.

What I found is that the Prius had a very difficult time:
1. Climbing hills with ice - I couldn't get the prius out of the sloped driveway on the ice - we had to sand everything and put four people in it ti get it out of the garage up to the street, while other, larger cars (a BMW 325 and a Dodge Stratus) had no trouble.

2. Transitioning from dry pavement to ice. - Not the safest thing to do while under acceleration, but I had the Prius go squirrelly while coasting downhill in a straight line, while turning both coasting and under power.

In a nutshell, I felt that the extremely low weight of the Prius made it MUCH harder to drive in severe ice than other cars I have driven in similar situations. Frankly, we are replacing my wife's crappy Neon with a 4wd Highlander Hybrid instead of a Prius so that I can have a car I'm more comfortable with in the winter when I commute through snow. Yes, it is for only a few days, but it's wet, slippery stuff. Yes, the damned Highlander OUGHT to get better mileage, and costs a LOT.

Just my 2 Cents.

 

I put cable chains on my Prius during a recent heavy snow storm in Seattle. I got around fine. Because of the cable chains, I avoided freeways and cleared arterial roads when possible. My GPS system was a big help.

I went down very steep hills with ease; I tested coming to a full stop before approaching the intersection at the bottom. Going up steep hills could be slow as the traction control would kick in, especially when starting or turning from a stop as I climbed. This was important to remember when turning left on steep bare or icy roads. I was surprised, however, how steep and curved the roads could be. I went on roads as steep if not steeper than unchained 4x4 drivers dared to try, albeit at a crawl sometimes.

I used radial pattern cable chains with two 1.5 cubic foot bags of gravel on the floor of the back row. They did not get good traction on steep, sanded, bare roads (Seattle did not use salt on the roads). Since then I have discarded those chains for cable chains with a Z pattern. I hope to get better traction on bare roads and ice but I have not tried it yet. I might try putting the bags in the "trunk" next time.

It was easy for me to forget that the back tires were not chained and would swing out on quick turns even at 25 mph. With gentle turns and acceleration (i.e. like an egg was on the accelerator pedal) I got around steep roads covered with compact snow and ice fine at less than 30 mph.

Clearance is less than on many mid-sized passenger cars. I followed a GM Saturn with tire chains; the Prius scraped the top of the snow between the tire tracks. I don't know if the Saturn was scraping too. I had to shovel away the berm at the end of my driveway to get out.

 

There are a handful of 04-05 Prius out there with really oversensitive TC behavior, mine being one of them. With "all season" tires, it's absolutely helpless in snow and especially a common problem here with intersections: in winter, with -40 temps, road salt doesn't work.

It's common for the curbside portion to have a sheen of ice, with the center lane mostly bare. Light turns green, you steep on the pedal, the Prius will remain motionless

Contrary to urban legend, the Prius TC does NOT "transfer" power from a slipping wheel to one that has traction. However, that is exactly how the TC works in my FJ, which means I *never* driver around in 4wd

I solved almost all of my Prius winter traction issues by running studded Goodyear Nordic winter tires from Canadian Tire. This is the same tire as the Goodyear Ultra Grip 500 sold in Europe, and is a very aggressive, well respected tire in the Scandinavian countries

Goodyear Eur-Winter Tire-UltraGrip 500

The only downside to this tire is that it's really noisy on dry pavement. That's a good compromise in my book. On ice, my Prius has superior traction, compared to my FJ running studless Toyo Open Country G-02 Plus winter tires

I won't run studless winter tires anymore. I've preordered factory studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 Sport Utility winter tires for my FJ for next winter

Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 SUV

The better studless winter tires, such as the Toyo's, are just as expensive as the best studded tires. On glare ice, common here in bitter cold temps, the studded tires have a good traction edge

 

I wish we could run studded tires.

Tom

 

My Prius handles snow quite well. Of course with winter tires. I use Dunlop SP WINTER SPORT 3D winter tires.
Traction control works as desired, also ESP/VSC is cool and corrects my stupid mistakes on the road.
So I would say that Prius is no worse on snow than any other car of same class. Of course having 4WD would be cool. But the price of 4WD is also higher fuel consumption.

 

I am dying to know if the 2010 Prius has made any improvements in the TC. There seems to be quite a mix of people with different experiences.

 

There are numerous people, including Jayman from Winnipeg who definitely are accustomed to snow and have had problems.

Definitely true. Slushy or icy or muddy or apparently some types of sand can cause it to lose traction. I've tested my car in a variety of conditions, and while I can make it lose traction, at least for awhile, in snow (particularly wet snow), it was only on ice (after stopping on an uphill slope) where I ever had a serious traction problem.

I think it's the tires and perhaps the flavor of TC programming you have. The Prius is NOT a light-weight vehicle (the batteries alone add up to quite a bit), it weighs probably 50% more than my Sentra did. Pickups are notoriously bad in snow and ice because they have so little weight in the back end where the drive wheels are, but that's not the problem with the Prius.