Prius Prime YTD sales vs Tesla

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Old Bear, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    But it does spin the reason for doing so.
     
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Veiled implications of a company lying on SEC documents is borderline crazy talk.
    Care to be more specific?
     
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  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    You are feeding a greenwash narrative by cherry-picking like that.

    Prime was clearly designed to for profitability. Compliance vehicles don't bother. Toyota's effort to deliver affordability is overwhelming evident that they are targeting mainstream sales.

    Choosing to only acknowlege the short-term perspective is intentionally misleading.
     
    #43 john1701a, Oct 26, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  4. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Mainstream sales? I once asked you to define mainstream sales and you stated sales of 60,000/year.
    In the US market, Prime has not yet reached that level, the Model 3 has.
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Why are you feeding a short-term narrative too?

    They set a target, then work toward it. When country-wide rollout is achieved, the count should rise.
     
  6. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    This was your definition John, not mine.
    Care to expand on what you mean by "short term narrative", you may not realize it, but you use a lot of phrases and terms that don't relay your thoughts. It is often difficult to understand what you are actually saying.
     
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  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    2 years is widely accepted as short-term.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    cliche' speak

    if by 'designed for profitability', you mean shoehorning in an oversize battery at the last minute, i agree.
     
    #48 bisco, Oct 26, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2018
  9. ssdesigner

    ssdesigner Active Member

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    That's exactly what I was referring to. I'm not spending thousands more on old tech where you are forced off the battery-only power when temps drop below 20 degrees. That's absurd IMHO. My commute is 4 miles each way, and I don't drive much outside of that. So for low-milage users in a cold weather state do we fill the gas tank up and let the car burn old gas? Or do we fill it 1/4 full and wonder if a mostly empty tank is ok in the cold weather?


    Their motors are not at all ready for all-electric. Just producing batteries doesn't automatically give you an electric car. As far as their "software", yeah....no. Anyone that spends 5 minutes with entune will come away with zero confidence in "toyota software".
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Prime starts at $27,300 and the engine doesn't start until outside temperature is below 15 F degrees. Exaggerating is not constructive. So what if it is less than 10% of the year in the Twin Cities. Having more than 90% all-electric for your 4-mile commute is a great fit. As for "old tech", what does that even mean? Many EV offerings still use old resistance heaters. Prime is more advanced using a vapor-injected heat-pump for greater efficiency.


    Prime uses the least powerful motor configuration offered by Toyota. It works fine in EV up to 84 mph. Want more power, look at what has been delivered in Camry hybrid and the upcoming next-gen RAV4 hybrid.


    Again, I suggest you watch those videos. With such detailed readouts, tell us technically what supposedly falls short. With the power they deliver, the control software, and the liquid cooling, what merit is there for making that claim?
     
    #50 john1701a, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the engine starts below 40 degrees in many cases, simply reading priuschat will tell you that. please don't try to intimate that your experience is the same as everyone else's.
    even the o/m will tell you that
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Anyone willing to turn a blind eye to reliability reputation and divert attention to an interface (which is changing) is clearly not critical thinking.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    What are these supposed "many cases" you claim?

    Not being an owner yourself, there's no reason to accept such a statement without proof. That's why I have video after video showing a wide variety of driving conditions to debunk the spread of generalizations.
     
  14. ziggy29

    ziggy29 Member

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    Maybe. But if someone is going to drive a vehicle for 10 years, unless Apple Car Play and Android Auto are rolled out to replace or augment future versions of the monumentally horrible Entune software, sales will suffer. Compatibility with those apps are driving more and more car sales. And as much I love the Prime in just about every other way, the thought of having Entune (as it currently is) for many more years does make me sad.
     
    #54 ziggy29, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Maybe what? It was a red herring. That has nothing to do with the "zero confidence" comment made about the control software for the propulsion system.

    btw, look up Prius rollout history. You'll find interesting mid-cycle updates... or interesting early rollout holdouts... depending on your perspective. It's all audience & timing.
     
    #55 john1701a, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you can find them on your own, but only if you're so inclined. or you can bury your head in the sand.

    if you spent some time answering peoples questions, perhaps you could advise them on how to prevent the engine from starting
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    My wife and I drove all throughout the winter last year in our Primes without experiencing an engine start until temperatures dropped below 15 F degrees. You set the blower on the WINDOW & FEET (any warmth setting is fine) and the mode to ECO. That's it. Gas isn't used until it gets colder or you force a start by pushing the max-defrost button.

    Watch these videos I just shared. There is a lot of detail for you to draw your own conclusions with. Don't let vague statements mislead or contribute to assumptions...

    Electric Heating (winter driving with Prius Prime) | PriusChat
     
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  18. ssdesigner

    ssdesigner Active Member

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    Ok, so 25% of my very early on the way to work commute would require gas then. No thanks.

    The fact that you continue to stick up for Toyota says it all. Had they continued to push forward to EV they would be light years ahead. They have buried their collective heads in the sand. When they come out with an EV they will also be years behind vs. the years ahead they should be.

    And absolutely NOTHING about their software should excite you. Entune is a complete train wreck, and anyone practicing any shred of critical thinking would agree.
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Behind what? The market hasn't even emerged out of the early-adopter stage. Whether or not you accept the fact that Toyota is working to refine their already available EV drive, plus related components & software, is not their problem. They are busy setting the stage for dealer & salesperson, as well as building a process for traditional vehicle phaseout. It never ceases to amaze me how some feel "ahead" should be quantified based on short-term measure, even though production cost is still out of reach and energy-density still isn't quite there yet.

    As for where they should be, where exactly is that? There's no basis for a mass acceptance of plug-in vehicles yet. High-Volume sales without subsidy haven't even been attempted yet. Reliance on tax-credits is a problem Tesla is scrambling to avoid though, but it is not a legacy automaker. GM is and will inevitably pay the price from not having a competitive product prior to triggering phaseout. Toyota still has time and will smoothly pass by from having taken the slower path to adapt a system capable of sustainable profits with a clear path to a wide variety of plug offerings. They carefully studied the market, rather than rushing to it.

    It's like watching the Tortoise & Hare story playout right before our eyes...
     
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  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    John will be here all week folks!:rolleyes:
    Remember, two drink minimum. Don't forget to tip your waitress :p
     
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