Prius truly green?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Albertus @ Feb 28 2007, 08:23 AM) [snapback]397762[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget about the energy used and the CO2 released to transport the Prius across the Pacific Ocean. Last time I checked those transport vessels consumed diesel fuel by the ton.

 

Someone more familiar than I can point you to threads that indicate the "dust to dust" lifecycle of a Prius is greener than a conventional car. Art Spinella of CNW Research has been spreading misinformation that a Prius is dirtier than a Hummer because of the batteries - they are as one put it - "an opinion for hire".

Far more nickel is used for steel than batteries on hybrids. NiMH batteries are less toxic than lead acid. Comsumer electrioncis and cell phones use NiHM batteries more than hybrids.

 

Albertus,

It seems kind of odd yesterday you were asking about keeping your Prius cool in the sun ( http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=3...mp;#entry397216 ), then make these posts - are you going to sell your Prius?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 28 2007, 08:26 AM) [snapback]397767[/snapback]</div>

This is an interesting implication: you mean transporting a Prius from Yokahama to Seattle emitts more CO2 than if it was a Corolla or Tacoma? Maybe more than an Chevy Aveo from S Korea?

 

Don’t forget all the huge suv’s and big trucks. All that material doesn’t waist anything wile making the huge vehicle. We all know that a diesel F350 is way greener in stop and go traffic than a prius because after all it didn’t use as much co2 to make it and you don’t have to dispose of the toxic batteries when the truck is no longer wanted. So lets all go out and get ourselves some big giant trucks. I almost forgot the v12 twin turbo luxury vehicles from Germany they are more green than the prius too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Albertus @ Feb 28 2007, 10:41 AM) [snapback]397778[/snapback]</div>

Um... boats aren't necessarily like cars, and the energy usage isn't really as impacted by the weight of cargo as a tractor trailer would be.

For instance, the amount of energy to transport a 4-Runner or Sequoia is probably not much more than the energy required to transport a Prius.

Now if you look at the case of a (SULEV) Highlander Hybrid, and compare it to a (PZEV) Ford Escape Hybrid, the FEH has a much lesser environmental impact over it's lifetime. Probably even greater than realized when you factor in how... lax... the Japanese government is with enforcing plant emissions.

 

In the foreseeable future, cars are going to be transported by conventional means by all automakers.

Just in case, Toyota is not responsibile for the greeness of the transports or airliners - at least not until greener alternatives surface.

 

Copying in its entirety, MRV's recent post to the Yahoo group about this:

"Here's the 2004 Toyota Prius Green Report (life cycle assessment):
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf
(you'll need to download the Japanese fonts for your PDF reader in order to read it, but the entire document is written in English.)

Over the lifespan of the Prius, when compared to a comparable mid-sized gasoline vehicle, the Prius comes out ahead in the life cycle assessment (LCA) for airborne emissions for CO2, NOx, SOx, HC, but actually does worse for PM (thanks to the material and vehicle production stages). Lifespan is given as 10 years use/100,000km.
The CO2 break-even point for the 2004 Prius compared to this unnamed gasoline vehicle is given at 20,000km. (more CO2 is emitted during Prius production, but the Prius makes up for it over it's driven lifetime.)"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Albertus @ Feb 28 2007, 09:06 AM) [snapback]397794[/snapback]</div>

It took a long time to emit greenhouse gases from fossil fuels, and it will take a long time to reverse it (although the sooner - the better).

Googling for "Art Spinella", "CNW Research", and his article claiming a Hummer takes less resources than a Prius will be found. At GH, a member actually contacted him...



Background: A hybrid driver emailed Mr Spinella as to where they generated revenue. They replied companies request them to write research papers for a fee. That seems like asking a waiter how you look before you finish the meal. The hybrid drivers' inquiry of how Mr. Spinella had data a Hummer is greener because it's simpler and has double the life of a hybrid was bypassed. Instead, Mr. Spinella replies with a personal attack. Granted, the inquirer could have been more tactful, the business reply seems anything but professional.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Hybrid Driver - inquiry")</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Art Spinella - the reply")</div>

Is this out of Professional Business Writing 101?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Feb 28 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]397792[/snapback]</div>

Oh, sure, 60,000 miles is a great estimate of lifespan of a car.

I have more than double that on two Civics, and both are in great shape, good for many, many more miles than that.

My estimate of a Prius lifespan is at least 200,000 miles, which is more than 3 times the estimate you cited.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 28 2007, 10:16 AM) [snapback]397800[/snapback]</div>

Haha, what a jerk.

 

If there is one thing worse than the common troller, it's a "authority" such as Art Spinella. Interestingly, he greatly praised the Chevy Volt. I suspect it had less to do with it being a serial hybrid and more with it being from GM.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 28 2007, 07:58 AM) [snapback]397826[/snapback]</div>

It is easily fixed. All one need do is point him to the dictionary definitions of "fact" and "opinion" and explain to him that his opinions aren't necessarily facts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 28 2007, 08:37 AM) [snapback]397776[/snapback]</div>

Nobody buys a Chevy Aveo so they feel like they are helping the earth. I don;t think that is true of the almighty Prius. Maybe Toyota can use sail boats built of only recycled composites.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Albertus @ Feb 28 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]397775[/snapback]</div>

Not that I'm a fan of big tanker ships ... but the fact is their engines are MUCH closer to 100% fuel efficient than most any othe engine

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 28 2007, 12:37 PM) [snapback]397888[/snapback]</div>

That is far more likely to happen than GM building a car to compete with the Prius.

Harry