1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Project - Big time newspaper article

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Mirza, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    898
    0
    0
    Hello all,

    I am making this post in order to accomplish a goal - producing an article (newspaper, online journal/magazine, etc) that supports hybrid vehicles. I am very dismayed at the vast number of articles that "just don't get it." I would really appreciate any suggestions and ideas on where to take this, because at the moment I have no clue.

    The article will contain the following premises (and more - this will be updated as time progresses):

    (please note that these arguments are in their infancy, and so will be worked upon to make them stronger - I would greatly appreciate pointers and more arguments if you have any)

    1 - the hybrid premium
    --------------the hypocrisy of people who analyze the fuel consumption/cost analysis of hybrids and say that hybrids aren't worth the premium.
    ------------- first of all, the hybrid premium is required in order for hybrid technology to advance, and it WILL advance
    ------------ the hybrid components ARE electronic. Recent history has taught us about electronics. Computers and electronics falling in price while their technology advances... same principle will apply to hybrid vehicles... the more that are sold, the better they get, the cheaper they get
    ------------I had an argument w/ my neighbor a couple of nights ago... (note that he drives a Porsche)... he said that hybrids are not so popular for two reasons - they are expensive and if you push them hard you won't save gas. To them I responded that I drive fast, but not very fast... and pointed out that he drives a Porsche and his wife drives a Suburban.
    ----------It is very illogical to denounce hybrid technology over a few K premium... im sure salespersons are able to make a good bit of money by convincing buyers to purchase more options and more expensive models.
    ----------the premium of a hybrid car can give you immense satisfaction - if you have the right attitude. There is nothing... no car feature ever designed... that gives me more satisfication than cruising in stealth mode, hearing the low-volume high-pitched turbine-like whine as the spring air flies into the car... for those moments in stealth mode, I am completely free... free from pollution, free from mid east oil and troubles, free from road rage and the urge to get to my destination a substantive 14 seconds earlier.
    --------- the hybrid car is on the path to the fuel cell car, and is more than just a step or mere transition - it comprises a significant portion of the soul of a fuel cell car. Take the engine out of the Prius and put in a fuel cell... and you have a fuel cell car. The hybrid car is on the path to the fuel cell car... not just on it - it is THE freaking path. Combustion engines are not.


    I will make a draft of this article over the coming week. In the meantime, I would greatly appreciate the following suggestions:
    1) ideas on new premises/arguments and improvements to the ones listed
    2) ideas on how I would get such an article press coverage

    I am doing this out of love of hybrid technology, and am determined to see this project to the very end. Thank you for any advice.
     
    #1 Mirza, Feb 3, 2006
  2. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    465
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    IMO what's killing hybrid credibility is the power-hybrids... the ones build not for MPG but for extra acceleration and whatnot. it's usually those that are used in the negative articles...

    also lots of unhappy prius drivers who refuse to LEARN (because who wants to do that) about their car and drive it like a racecar and complain they only get 38 mpg.
     
    #2 galaxee, Feb 3, 2006
  3. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    2,492
    245
    0
    Location:
    WA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Not sure if you are writing an editorial or an article. As much as I like my Prius, there are pros and cons. If you want to serve your readers, you should be writing a balanced article, not shoving your opinions down their throats. This is a major problem with "journalism"today. It seems to me like your conclusions are pre-ordained, so I'm not sure why you are asking for anybody's views. That said...

    Since you "have no clue" where to begin, may I suggest you put yourself in the the mindframe of the average, serious car shopper. Do some research on safety, fuel economy, functionality, reliability, performance, etc. Weigh payments against options, features, and benefits, just like a real buyer.

    You could perhaps profile several types of buyers - maybe spend some time with a few real buyers. Spend some time understanding their decision processes. What factors are most important. Are their key "barriers" to a hybrid purchase (fear of the technology/intimidation); how do they make trade off decisions (price vs. fuel economy, for instance); where does fuel economy/environmental factors fall in the ranking of most important considerations for vehicle purchase?

    IMO, this will serve your readers better than an editorial style piece, unless that is the objective.
     
    #3 TimBikes, Feb 3, 2006
  4. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    2,492
    245
    0
    Location:
    WA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Also - one other comment on the hybrid "premium" - there was a recent post regarding the value of hybrids - I think it refered to a website www.vincentric.com. It found that due to lower operating costs, higher resale, and the tax incentive that hybrids are in fact a better value than most other vehicles, so the "hybrid premium" seems largely unfounded.

    And you might consider why people pay a "premium" for leather seats, for a hemi engine, for larger wheels, a bigger engine, etc. It would be interesting to understand the mindset in how people justify the added expense for a benefit that may be difficult to fully quantify. Undoubtedly there is a lot of emotion in car buying that would have to be considered, for hybrids or non-hybrids.
     
    #4 TimBikes, Feb 3, 2006
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,060
    3,529
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    This is a very interesting idea, and I am surely one of many around here who have thought about doing it. There are so many possible topics to expand upon, that it could become a book instead of just an article...Maybe that can be your second project?

    If your major focus is on "the hybrid premium", then you might want to look at actual operating and ownership costs, to the extent that we have measured them so far. I could give one example of a 2001 Prius with 84k miles, and surely there are others who have been doing this for a while and have data. Nothing like that would convince somebody who is sure that an expensive thing will fail just after the warranty ends, but it is interesting how much one saves over the long term, when fuel cost per mile is 2 to 4 cents reduced.

    As far as fuel costs, they have increased about 35% over the last 3 years. It would be simple to project fuel cost savings over the next 3, with 0% or 35% increase, or whatever other projection strikes your fancy. DOE projected fuel costs of $2.50/gallon steady for the next several years, but I'm not sure that they, um, put a lot of thought into that.

    Then there is the entire issue of emissions. Carbon dioxide tracks mpg, so it's easy. Almost all hybrids are SULEV or better, one might compare this with other new cars (ULEV, broadly speaking), or the US vehicle fleet at large. Compared to the latter, SULEV is a massive improvement. I tried to find a reliable assesment of health costs associated with pollutant emissions, but found (just a few) highly variable numbers, and nothing approaching a consensus. Perhaps this will not come as a surprise. Carbon emissions traders presently value a ton of CO2 at $5 to $25, for whatever that's worth.

    One could look at the growth of the US "hybrid fleet" since 2000, and put some industry projections out in the future. It is likely to represent 1% of the total fleet within the next few years. Ending oil imports would take quite a bit more. Raising CAFE standards by 1 mpg would do more, but that takes many years to raise the fleet average mpg.

    However you slice it, US "energy independence" is a big nut to crack, and hybrids can't do it alone. Might be interesting to compare hybrid adoption (to date) to energy/CO2 saved by having partially changed from incandescent to compact fluorescent lighting, or some other example that people could get a handle on.

    Rather than starting out to disprove "the hybrid premium", one might start with a clean sheet of paper and establish the case that there is a "non-hybrid car premium". Direct costs (fuel, more frequent stops for fuel, brake system maintenance, automatic transmission repairs, etc.) and indirect costs (fuel importing, CO2 and pollutant emissions) are all higher with those old things. We should show pity, and help them to understand.

    With more than 300,000 hybrids now in the US (not all Toyotas of course!), I'm not sure that we need to play defense any more. Let's throw a few long passes.
     
    #5 tochatihu, Feb 3, 2006
  6. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    1,805
    0
    0
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM (SouthWest US)
    It's amazing how often this comes up.

    First of all, not all cars are equal (most readers should agree with that ..), and not all hybrids are equal. Around here, we know Prius, and I know my package best, so

    What is the value of:

    Styling
    New Technology
    SKS
    Nav
    Best Emissions
    Lower Petrol consumption
    Ergonomics
    Stealth Driving
    45 - 60 mpg(US)
    Hatchback
    Bluetooth
    High Intensity Headlights
    Best Safety in it's class
    VSC
    Side Airbags
    Interior roominess

    The list could go on. The point is that trying to pigeon hole the Prius into a single question of "Did I save money if I keep the car for 3.1 years" is silly. By all means make a table to show cost over time compared to a couple of different representative cars, but don't stop there. That would just be a disservice to your readership, and a surrender to reactionaries afraid of something new.
     
    #6 EricGo, Feb 3, 2006
  7. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    My wife and I were in the mall last weekend and there were cars parked in the middle of the aisle with the window stickers clearly displayed. One that I remember was a Volvo; a very nice-looking brand new car with many features. The sticker price was less than what I paid for my Prius.

    My point? I could have bought that car with what I paid for my Prius. Shoot, for what I paid for my fully loaded hybrid, I could buy a Dodge Charger or Magnum, or Ram 2500. I could have bought a Ford Crown Victoria, Taurus, or Mustang. I could have bought a lot of vehicles, but I didn't want to; I wanted my Prius at any cost. I suppose that's what people are thinking when they buy their Jaguars, Ferraris, and Mercedes.

    What I save in gas will probably never pay for the difference between my hybrid and the cost of a $20,000 Mustang. But that's not the point (if it were, I'd have bought the cheap little Mustang). And those who attempt to use that line of reasoning as a strike against hybrids simply don't get it. And every time they open their mouths or write it down, they prove it.

    Mind you, I'm not attacking you directly. You asked for feedback and this is my initial thought based on the very first thing that came out of your keyboard. This makes me think that it might be the strongest point on your mind. And if that's the case, it's the first thing that should be addressed.

    Welcome to Priuschat. I hope you read alot here because you will not only learn about hybrid technology and the Prius, you will get a feel for the kinds of people who drive them and are willing to pay that "hybrid premium" to get them.
     
    #7 TonyPSchaefer, Feb 3, 2006
  8. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I'd like to emphasize that point about "power hybrids". It's like
    the brilliant folks who worked on the Prius essentially made the
    hybrid come of age, and then the marketroids got hold of the idea
    and twisted it all around to cater to the road-ragin' type A drivers
    out there with the Highlander and the RX-whateveritis. Prius buyers
    seem to be a more intelligent, discerning crowd, and just about any
    article favoring hybrids is going to have a strong preaching-to-the-
    choir aspect around here, but how would you bring the message that
    no, you *don't* really have to get their 14 seconds earlier to the
    general masses, when they've been so lulled into this "need more
    power" thinking for years by the deep-pockets marketing engine?
    .
    Sure, this doesn't sound especially balanced, but if there's any way
    to work in a compelling argument that there needs to be a profound
    shift in how we think about transportation and how hybrids can help,
    then I hope that can happen.
    .
    _H*
     
    #8 hobbit, Feb 3, 2006
  9. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    898
    0
    0
    Well, it's been some time since I've updated this. After the article "Top Ten Hybrid Myths" was published, I used the mental/psychological excuse that I didn't need to do this just to get out of doing some hard work. Here is the first draft:


    In South Park’s episode “Smug Alert,” Parker and Stone poke fun at the smugness and elitist attitudes of Hollywood, the left, and hybrid drivers. Towards the end of the episode, after the denizens of South Park have destroyed their hybrid vehicles, Stan talks about how “smugness is a problem in people, and not hybrids... and people just need to learn how to drive hybrids - they could save the world one day... and then the citizens of South Park are like - we aren't ready yet - Let's go back to our gas guzzlers!”
    The very first Prius was launched in Japan nine years ago. It had a ‘turtle’ indicator that lit up when the charge in the battery was lower, and the car would perform more slowly. Recently after introduction into the United States, one pundit predicted that the Prius would have major operating failures after 20,000 miles. He proclaimed that salt from winter conditions would damage the hybrid components and lead to a hellfire catastrophe.

    The date is March 30, 2006. None of the doom and gloom predictions made about hybrid technology have come true. The Prius is now Toyota’s third best-selling model in the U.S.
    Surely, there are still critics. Much of such criticisms are unwarranted. A Consumer Reports article found that you would not save money by purchasing hybrid models such as the Highlander, RX400h, and Honda Accord. However, the point of these vehicles isn’t to save gas; buying a luxury car for the sole purpose of saving gas defies logic in itself. The Highlander, RX400h, and Honda Accord hybrid models offer a unique package of the best performance of their respective model lineup, as well as fuel economy and emissions. There are several reasons and mentalities for buying a hybrid: saving money for the lower-end models, environmental consciousness, technology, improved performance through the electric drive, and investing in the future.

    Though the cost work-ups may not be favorable for the bigger and better performing hybrids, investing in hybrids now is going to help reduce their cost in the future. This is the rule of economies of scale: as production goes up, costs go down. “Katsuaki Watanabe, Toyota Motor’s president, is aiming to close the price gap between hybrid vehicles and conventional gas-powered cars in the wake of the recent spike I oil pirices (Noon).” “Rechargeable batteries, electric motors, and sophisticated computer controls do add to the cost of producing a hybrid car. However, as production numbers increase, economies of scale are expected to reduce those costs. Toyota plans to offer hybrid versions of all its most popular models and thus cut the incremental cost of hybrids in half (Berman).”

    Investing in hybrids also correlates to investing our future. Whether or not fuel cells become our future, it is clear that hybrid technology will pave the way. Fuel cells combine hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity. This electricity is then utilized drive high-torque electric motors, as a battery does in an electric vehicle and hybrid vehicles. The path from the modern internal combustion engine to the fuel cell is thus a continuum, with hybrids bridging the gap.

    In a car, the fuel cell would replace the battery of an electric vehicle. The reverse process of hydrolysis is highly inefficient and expensive. Toyota’s fuel cell hybrid vehicles will adapt a battery much like today’s hybrids to capture regenerative energy and improve performance and fuel economy. Jason Mark, director of the clean vehicles program for the Union of Concerned Scientists, told HybridCars.com: “Hybrid vehicles are the bridge between conventional vehicles and fuel cells (Berman).”
    “In an Associated Press interview, Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA, said: ‘I think everything will be a hybrid, eventually. It will either be a gas hybrid, a diesel hybrid, or a fuel-cell hybrid’ (Berman).”
    As we move further into the 21st century with threats of accelerated global warming and energy crises, hybrid technology will play a integral role in developing solutions to the world’s current and future problems. Clearly, investing in hybrid technology is investing into our future.


    Noon, Chris. "Toyota's Watanabe Seeks to Cut Premium on Hybrid Cars." Forbes.com Business. 13 Sep 2005. Forbes. 30 Mar. 2006 <http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/13/toyota-prius-hybrid-cx_cn_0913autofacescan07.html>.

    Berman, Bradley. "The Top Ten Hybrid Myths." BusinessWeek Online. 13 Feb 2006. BusinessWeek. 30 Mar. 2006 <http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jan2006/bw20060131_870391.htm>.



    ------
    To be updated...
     
    #9 Mirza, Mar 30, 2006
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,954
    16,172
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    think about it. They first complain that hybrids are slow. So now we have hybrids that can go fast and prove them wrong, they find something else to complain such has not gett better fuel mileage. Ya huh... you find me a V8 midsize SUV that gets better mileage than the HiHy or RX400h. Yeah, that's right... V8. Why? Cause both hybrids BEAT the X5 4.4i and ML430 in 0-60 times and ¼ mile times. pwned.

    So there you have it. A V6 hybrid that can own a V8 truck in both performance and economy.
     
    #10 Tideland Prius, Mar 30, 2006
  11. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    898
    0
    0
    I've updated the article, and will bring it up once I've made some more changes.

    In particular, I want to use a different introductory paragraph and take a proble-solution approach - about accelerated global warming and other environmental issues (my sources will most likely be the latest Time's article).

    Once these changes are made, along with suggestions from this thread, and I get a final draft I will first approach the hybrid sites to publish the article (PC, Evworld.com). I will then take it one step at a time, and not rush to trying to get it to my original goal - a big time newspaper.

    Tideland Prius, I have incorporated your sentiment into the article - I will assume you won't mind - but in case you do let me know.

    Another idea that I've been throwing around in my head would be a "Hybrid Power" event based in a major city to denounce the myths and misconceptions about hybrids - some of which are mentioned in this article. One idea would be to have a giant multiple interactive television screens/computers that would run Toyota's HSD flash program - in particular the FAQ section.

    See:
    http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/hs...s_van=GM_TN_HSD

    The FAQ on the flash site gets to the heart of the matter about misconceptions about hybrids - in particular the ones about recycling batteries, the life of the battery, about wrecked Prii, etc etc.

    Misconceptions still run rampant about hybrid vehicles ~ this is the driving force for these ideas... one can dream, right? You never know!

    As far as a Hybrid Power campaign would go, I figure the next step would be to try and keep contacting Toyota - somehow - keep sending emails to different people who are involved with the HSD, and perhaps starting a thread dedicated to this Hybrid Power campaign. Hopefully someone from Toyota would notice, and charge this thing into reality (no pun intended).
     
    #11 Mirza, Mar 31, 2006
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)