Putting the PHV through it's paces in the hot desert... (Rick's turn for the PHV)

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by HTMLSpinnr, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Unlike the solar package, the Remote A/C on the PHV requires you to be plugged in because it's using "wall power" to run the A/C (hence why it runs at a rather "low power" on 120V to keep within 10-12A). Bonus is you could get heat out of it in the winter time. Regardless of the mode, it's going to run for > 3 minutes and not leave you with an empty HV battery when it's done.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Airbalancer

    Airbalancer Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    892
    73
    0
    Location:
    Cobourg, On, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    To bad they did not let you have like Jan 20, and see what it does in the winter
     
  3. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    352
    182
    4
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Follow up question: Does the "remote" AC system on the PHV actually engage the contactors to supply power to the inverter to run the air conditioning or does the vehicle charger somehow directly provide power to the inverter to run the AC? I know the power actually comes from the onboard charger (otherwise it wouldn't be a very good plug in climate system) but I'm curious if it is actually engaging the contactors like it does on the remote A/C package of the stock vehicle.

    Andrew
     
  4. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    I assume by contactors, you mean the SMR (System Main Relay).

    I'll have to try it again and listen for it. There was some clickety going on, but it sounds more under-hood. The car is in a locked door "ig-on plus" type mode. Same limit applies where you open the door and the system turns off.
     
  5. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    352
    182
    4
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Yes, sorry I meant SMR. There might be another relay under the hood that determines whether the charger is charging the battery or providing power directly to the inverter perhaps...

    Andrew
     
  6. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    I won't have a chance to test Remote A/C till later tonight as we were running a bit late this morning (note to self: don't set Pepsi can on the center console while packaging up the power cable, but rather make it find the cup-holder - someone WILL spill it :( - the WeatherTek mats installed helped contain most of it)

    This morning's commute stats:

    EV specific: 83% EV, 17% HV. EV range ended between 15.0 and 15.1 miles on the trip meter. As others observed, 1.6 miles was when the accelerator pedal sensitivity changed drastically and the ICE began it's warm-up phase. Doing the math, I got nearly 12.5 miles of "actual" EV range, with an average speed of 31mph. Assuming 3.6kWh input, that makes about 3.47 miles per kWh.

    The route I took did have some rolling hills and 45-50mph speed limits (I saw 55mph at one point). A/C was set to 78˚F and Eco mode was used. Ambient temp @ 9am was 95˚-97˚F. EV mode shut off right before I would have gotten on the freeway, which was exactly what I predicted. Using my more typical route, I may have had a small bit of EV left as I entered the freeway.

    I wasn't too sparing on acceleration, however used about 50% of the HSI "meter" (which is probably the equivalent of just filling PWR range in HV mode per display). EV range did trickle down quite a bit while accelerating, but steadied during constant speed driving.

    Overall morning: 47% pure EV, 53% hybrid over 26.6 miles. Display still said 99.9mpg (don't have a ScanGuage to see the real figure, just know it's somewhere over 100mpg). Average speed 30mph. I only did about 3 miles of freeway today, opting to take surface streets to grab a Jamba Juice on my way to work.

    I found it quite easy during cruising speeds to keep the instantaneous MPG gauge at 75mpg+.

    I do wish I had 3 trip meters. One for the week, one for each leg of the trip to compare EV vs non-EV, and a third to measure the whole day. I may just have to forego the per-leg info and instead use a more realistic "per-charge" approach (remember, I can't plug-in at work).
     
  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,986
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    It is amazing how well PHV prius blends EV and HV. it appears no matter how you drive, you will get 12-14 miles on EV. That is every consistent and predictable behavior that I would expect from a refined mass produced plugin.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,276
    4,940
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    True, the EV from the PHV model is amazing. I was delighted by how hard you could accelerate. But once reaching that "low" threshold, the system really just reverts back to normal engine sensitivity. I was under the impression it was something new & unique based on prior comments others had made. It's not.

    Unfortunately, we had actually been contributing to a newly emerging misconception. Better be careful the way we comment!

    That revert is really just preservation of EV, hoping the start of the engine sooner will allow an opportunity for it off later with that final 1.5 miles of juice left.
    .

    Yup. I was quite surprised how my "hill climbing" adventures didn't even seem to have any impact. The penalty from extra power needed to climb up is basically compensated for by the quantity of regen on the way down.
    .
     
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    If I had an accelerometer or ScanGauge, I could potentially quantify this, however I've noted that the "lift-off" deceleration (regen) is a bit higher in the PHV than it is in my Prius. Braking feel is also slightly different, as if more regen is being permitted.
     
  10. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    ScanGauge enroute - will be in possession tomorrow - Thanks Amazon Prime 1 day shipping. ::shameless plug::
     
  11. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Today's overall stats:

    Overall: 53.5 miles, 71.3mpg, 77% Hybrid, 23% EV, and an average speed of 31mph. Ambient temps mid-day for my lunch run were 110°F, and quickly sucked MPG from a pegged 99.9mpg to 88.0mpg. My trip home (w/o a recharge) was at a slightly cooler 104-106°F. Eco mode and 78°F A/C were the name of the game.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,986
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    That's an awesome mpg for the condition you drove in.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,276
    4,940
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Also, let's not forget the PZEV emission rating.

    There's very likely an advantage when it comes to this by starting the engine earlier.
    .
     
  14. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    ScanGauge II now in-hand. What types of data would be of most interest?

    Granted, this one hasn't been calibrated yet w/ two fill-ups, so I can't begin to estimate if MPG or other stats will be accurate.
     
  15. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Did the 0-60 trial. It took a few attempts to get it w/o getting the ICE to trip (the HSI demand meter DOES move even w/ a steady foot) and the last attempt was a bit conservative on the accelerator. Backing off regularly to keep from triggering the ICE, I achieved an estimated 29 seconds, but the last 15 seconds of that is from 45-60. MG1 torque goes WAY down towards 60 per Scangauge (41.x ft/lbs). Foot "off" regen is -12.1 ft/lbs

    This was done ambient temp 99-100°F and w/ A/C turned off (windows cracked, I was still sweating).

    Some other interesting stats:

    Plugged-in A/C demand, 450-500w
    Full A/C demand in Eco, 2000w
    Full A/C demand w/o Eco, 2200w

    The A/C runs approx 15 minutes before shutting off. I was sitting in the car the whole time programming XGAUGE codes into the ScanGauge, and it barely made a dent in interior temp. What's more alarming is the 500w A/C demand, yet the Kill-a-watt shows much higher. Clearly there's some other "use" here (blower, radiator fans, ECU in ig-on), or the charger is really inefficient.

    I'll get something up on YouTube once I've edited it down.

    Edit: Viewed AC watts again in the driveway with the temp gauge at 111F, the values were a bit higher. Also, A/C compressor doesn't sound nearly as loud in the PHV (lower RPM, larger compressor probably).
     
  16. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Attaching some pics from the past few days.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,521
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    "Clearly there's some other "use" here (blower, radiator fans, ECU in ig-on), or the charger is really inefficient."

    Charging the battery ?
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,521
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Rick,

    How were you able to isolate the AC power drain during driving ? I'm guessing the difference between with and without ? Does the SG show battery flow ?
     
  19. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    913
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    The SG does isolate A/C power draw. I believe it can also show total amps, but I have either not found it, or didn't stay on the parameter long enough to matter. Unfortunately I didn't completely RTFM first, and thus didn't set the engine type to HYBRID, thus as I'm traveling w/o the ICE, the SG continued to shut off.

    We've already established that the battery stops charging while the remote A/C is in use. If remote A/C is used before charging is complete, the plug must be removed and reinserted to resume charging. Otherwise, the screen will display "charging interrupted".

    More interesting, is after letting it run through two cooling cycles, the EV range was not the full 14.0 miles, but rather 13.5 to start. Looks like the HV battery is energized for the DC-DC converter. We also know the HV battery is energized during charging to keep ECUs alive. It's charged first, then last during the charge cycle.
     
  20. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    1,179
    359
    1
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    So, ScanGauge says 450-500 W for A/C, and Kill-a-Watt says 1000-1200 for the whole thing... My ScanGauge tells me I use about 1.5-2 Amps just idling, that's a bit over 400 Watts. That's what's needed for all the electronics and such, with no A/C or fan. So there's about 850 Watts accounted for; add in the fan (probably 100+ Watts on high? Never measured it.) 950/1100 = 86%, which is a halfway-decent power supply efficiency. Throw in some more losses here and there, and the power is pretty much all accounted for...
     
Loading...