Putting the PHV through it's paces in the hot desert... (Rick's turn for the PHV)

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by HTMLSpinnr, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    " 86%, which is a halfway-decent power supply efficiency."

    Really ? That is close to 175+ watts of heat during recharging. As someone who whines when a 13 watt CFL is used in the house when a 7 watt will do, I find this a bit disheartening.

    Rick, can you come up with a number during recharging ?
     
  2. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    86% is actually pretty good in the switching power-supply world.

    I'll see if the current displays can be shown while charging.
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Cool. I remember that Tony stuck a kill-a-watt on his wall charger, although he thought he was violating something in the terms by doing so. Maybe we should be using the car's inverter, which I know is *much* more efficient.
     
  4. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Yea, I only used the Kill-a-watt long enough to get my values. It requires an extension cord in my case because of the outdoor "cover" on the outlet I'm using. Despite the cord's rating that matches or exceeds the charger rating, I'm respecting Toyota's request to not use the cord for charging to prevent overheating the cord or bypassing leak detection (not concerned, it's not raining here).

    I couldn't get the AMP display to work properly (nothing returned w/ a stationary load), and the max charge/discharge of 20/21kW values seemed to be "peak" values stuck in the Scan Gauge.
     
  5. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Took a few moments to observe the difference in power consumption between the PHV and my 2010 w/ Solar.

    2010 Prius A/C demand MAX is 1800 watts, 400 less than the PHV. Eco mode still shaves 200 watts under high load.

    Remote A/C demand in the std 2010 is up to the max 1800 watts, regardless of Eco setting. Compared to the PHV's 500 watts, the std Prius stands to be more effective, but for a far shorter amount of time. What we don't know is how the current draw translates to BTU output.

    I wonder if some drivers would be willing to trade range for cooling effectiveness if the sub packs could be tapped for pre-cooling or pre-heating.

    Side note: Battery AMP does work in my 2010, so the PHV must use a different SGII value - kinda stinks, as I'd love to know the max draw in the LiIon setup. :-(
     
  6. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    YouTube video of acceleration (should be HD once they're done processing):
     
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  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I am enjoying your reports immensely, Rick. Thanks, and keep them coming.

    I thought I remembered reading from the Torrance reviews that merging on to highway traffic in Ev is quite doable. After watching the videos I am skeptical, and would like the option to warm up the ICE before I am on the ramp.
     
  8. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Once I triggered the ICE on the first attempt, It was stuck for about a minute or two in a warm-up phase before I could keep the car in EV. I didn't have temp sensors viewable in the SG II, so not sure just how long that took, but it did translate to about 1-1.5 miles before I could maintain full EV again. Bear in mind the outside temp was almost 100°F
     
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Some physical differences I've observed between my 2010 and the PHV:


    • Rear spring "color" markings are different, the PHV rear coils are painted "blue/purple". Mine are not (yellow/orange or something similar). I'm not sure if that's indicative of spring rate, etc.
    • Tire PSI placard is 38psi both front and rear. Passenger/cargo rating is still 825lbs.
    • Under-hood placards are updated to reflect LiIon battery packs as well as a bit more refrigerant installed (.45lbs more max).
    • The "sticker" on the engine cover says "Plug-in Hybrid" instead of "Hybrid Synergy Drive".
    • There's at least 4 refrigerant pipes vs. two leading from the A/C "area" into the firewall.
    • The inverter coolant tank is a bit larger.
    • The inverter "appears" to look the same, however there is one additional plug.
    • The fuel tank appears to sit a tiny bit lower underneath the car. There's also some additional battery connectivity or fuel-tank assembly items beneath where the spare tire "tray" is.
    • The fuel door placard states that refueling should happen within 30 minutes of releasing the electronic fuel door. There's a more "standard" pressurized gas cap that ratchets upon closing.

    Pictures reflecting this (and others I've uploaded) are in the following Picasa Album (updated as I add more pics):

    Picasa Web Albums - HTMLSpinnr (Rick) - Toyota Plug-i...
     
  10. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Awesome, thanks for all the details. One quick question--when the vehicle is plugged in, is the entire MID (dash) lit up like you show in your "plugged in" dash picture where it has the ETA on charge completion? Like, if the car is plugged in can you just look through the window and see if it's charging (and how long till its charged) or do you need to turn the car on first?

    Andrew
     
  11. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    The car must be in IG-ON to display the "time to charge". An attempt to place the car in READY mode will be prompted by a warning to disconnect the plug first.

    The MID also illuminates during remote A/C mode (which is like IG-ON+ or "Almost Ready")
     
  12. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    THANKS!!! Just as I predicted around 30 seconds give or take a couple of seconds. I bet this thread will be searched alot by none Prius owners or someone who never driven a regular Prius before. They don't know how hard it is stay in pure EV during acceleration. The EV acceleration on a regular Gen III prius is extremely slow. We're talking more than a minute to get 0 to 40. By the time you get to 45, you've already depleted the HV battery. This is not an electric car nor a race car. It's made to save gas. The EV acceleration on the PHEV Prius is perfectly fine for everyday driving. I wish the regular Prius can accelerate that fast in EV.
     
  13. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    I think because 0-30 is so much stronger, I falsely assumed 0-60 would be just as good, but failed to account for the balance of "power" strongly favors the ICE above 45mph.
     
  14. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    In my calculations for the Gen3 PHEV comparison spreadsheet I estimated that the electric power of the Toyota PHV vehicle was ~35 kW. Would you say that's realistic? I realize it's not easy to determine w/o amperage / voltage data--but given that the stock vehicle uses roughly ~21 kW in EV do you think that's approximately correct?

    Andrew
     
  15. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Could it be derived from MG1 torque and RPM? Otherwise, w/o HV battery amps, we'd only be guessing.
     
  16. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Since we have average acceleration -- about 1 meters/sec^-2, we should be able to calculate average battery power output.

    If I arranged the units correctly, P = F*a*t/2
    Where P is power,
    F is force,
    a is acceleration, and
    t is time

    then I get 21.7 kw, assuming 1450 Kg mass.
     
  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    0-30 MPH in 8 seconds. 0-40 MPH in 10 seconds. 0-45 in 15 seconds. This is perfectly acceptable for local driving in pure EV.

    Majority of the trips are less than 5 miles away from home anyway. They will be at local driving speed.
     
  18. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Do you mean MG2? We don't have the torque curve for MG2. I read it somewhere that 153 lbs-ft is across the entire RPM, but I doubt it.

    If we have the torque curve and you can get the MG2 RPM, we can definitely figure out the power.
     
  19. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    I calculated 35 kW from the wire gauge actually (it appears to be the same as the stock HV wiring--just that there is another set for the charge deplete batteries to the separate boost converter). If it is still ~6 AWG, then the maximum current you can pull through it is around 100 amps sustained, thus if the nominal pack voltage is 345.6 (courtesy of Toyota) then the maximum sustained power would be roughly 35 kW nominal--with a high internal resistance I would expect this number to fluctuate similar to how you were describing the HSI swaying.

    My guess is that it can burst higher for a few seconds then it sustains at ~35 kW. The motor (MG2) is still 60kW maximum output--given that they like to keep a sizable safety buffer to prevent damaging the motor I think that'd fit.

    If you had MG2 torque you may be able to calculate it if you also had RPMs but I would think that would be subject to change based on speed even though the electric power is constant...

    Andrew
     
  20. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    There was another thread on "charging in the rain". Turns out a T-storm did blow in late last night. When the lightning counted off as being ~1 mile away, I decided to quickly unplug the car. While I wasn't too worried about the water-tightness of the plug (the rain was rather slanted and coming down pretty heavily), or the leak protection the adapter provides, I wasn't all that interested in testing the lightning resistance of the car (or my outlets). I'm not sure the capacitors in the charging unit were rated at a million volts... LOL

    Good thing too - not 10 minutes later we had a strike about 2 seconds away. Scared the kids out of bed, but at least I knew the car was safe ;)
     
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