Questions concerning PHEV modification, particularly Enginer

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by Unresolved_ERR, Jun 17, 2021.

  1. Unresolved_ERR

    Unresolved_ERR Junior Member

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    Thank you for the note! Enginer seems to only have a website up and probably hasn't actually put out an order since 2012, so I'm likely going to stick with my car as it is, as much as I wish I could have a little EV driving on a budget.

    That said, a brand new Prime would only be a few semesters' worth, anyways...

    My girlfriend has a C-MAX Energi. It's a good vehicle. Closer to the height I'd like, but I wouldn't very easily abandon a car rated for 50 MPG.

    Once I have more in the way of money, it'd be nice to get a vehicle that's not 12 years old when I get it :')
     
  2. Valiant V

    Valiant V Member

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    I'd like to know where you're buying your PP's for "sub $20K". A really quick check shows my local dealer selling them for the high side of $31K. There were precious few "incentives" when I was shopping two months ago.

    Google thinks they start at $28K PLUS for an LE.

    https://g.co/kgs/Q5LJsE
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Here's what Edmunds showed me (not for my own zip code):
    upload_2021-6-17_14-26-55.png

    Then account for the $4502 federal tax credit, though it seems that OP may not be at a high enough tax level to collect all of that.

    I should note that Toyota is showing me only $4500 in their own incentives for that zip code, not the $5400 that Edmunds shows. Check other regions for other levels, my home area doesn't have much now.
    upload_2021-6-17_14-32-34.png .
    I believe that Salamander bought his pre-Pandemic, when such deals were surprisingly common in some regions. Unfortunately, not in my region.
     
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  4. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    I suspect that the OP will be disappointed with the PHEV use model. The idea is to be mostly EV with gas taking up the slack. For example, my Prime is showing 27.8 miles of range fresh off the charger. If you get 27.8 miles of EV and have a 28 mile round trip, then it's working pretty much as it should.

    Yes, the ICE will kick on for a minute in these circumstances. Is it really that terrible to drive for .2 miles on ICE each day? I don't think so. After all, that's 27.8 miles of NOT being on ICE, right? :)
     
  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    @fuzzy1 kindly explained some numbers. Depending on where you live Toyota has been giving a huge cashback offer on PP since the model debut. The cashback has been amount to $3000-$5500 in NewEngland region and similar in NY and CA. For both of my 2017 and 2020 PP, my net price was ~$18K after fed tax credit and state incentives were counted. The price of the 2017 PP which replaced then 3 years old Gen3 Prius Two was cheaper. I paid over $21K on 2015 Prius Two, no fed credit, and only $500 Toyota cashback. On top of the cheaper net cost to purchase, the Prius Prime depreciated less than Gen3 in my case. In fact, my last two PP held the value much better than the 2015 Gen3 Prius so that the switch from 2017 PP to 2020 PP was no cost, and the sale of 2020 PP gave me a net $4K profit.
     
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  6. Unresolved_ERR

    Unresolved_ERR Junior Member

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    Yes, I'm enthused by that idea, and I believe I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that 25 miles of EV is much, much better than 0.25 miles of EV (only rechargeable by burning gas), and I completely understand that the point is to get amazing gas mileage, which it does.

    But ignoring my already mentioned criticisms keeping most used primes out (4 seats), and the fact that. See

    upload_2021-6-17_17-16-23.png
    upload_2021-6-17_17-16-56.png
    Even with a 2020, it's still...yea. Oklahoma, with how it is, isn't going to give any incentives for green vehicles.

    I genuinely feel I could have a vehicle with more EV range for far less by modifying my current one given the right services, even though it would be a hassle to work around the limitations as much as possible and whatnot. Maybe under $10,000...

    Honestly, if my budget weren't so small for when I got my car a year ago...I still wouldn't have gotten a plug-in model, not because I wouldn't have wanted one, but because I didn't even know they existed. I just would've ended up with a regular 2012 instead of a plug-in. Not to mention that it can be difficult to find one here, used even, since they weren't originally sold in Oklahoma...If I had the budget now, of course I'd strongly consider getting a Prime, even though I'm fully of the opinion that its EV range is just barely lackluster.
     
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    You don't have to buy it in Oklahoma. Just register it there after shopping somewhere else with better offers. You won't get their state government incentives, but can still get the various Toyota and federal tax incentives. And maybe a student or recent graduate offer too.
     
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  8. Unresolved_ERR

    Unresolved_ERR Junior Member

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    In the end, likely unsurprisingly, I will simply run my vehicle as it is, maintenance it regularly, keep it running well...Boulder Hybrids sounds like a good deal if you're a Colorado resident ($2.6k for 4 kWh, $5.6k for 10 kWh) and if I was, I wouldn't even hesitate.

    But the out-of state prices ($10k for 4 kWh, $12.5k for 10 kWh) are less enthusing, and at that point I'm better off putting that money towards a Prime.

    Odds are I will still aim for a 5th Gen Prius, in the strongly held hopes that they make the EPA estimated range longer somehow, even if that's only due to efficiency enhancements.

    I'd hope for different battery size options similar to what the Plug-in conversion above has, but that's unlikely.

    Most everyone on this thread proved helpful - thank you all very much.
     
  9. Unresolved_ERR

    Unresolved_ERR Junior Member

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    In the end, likely unsurprisingly, I will simply run my vehicle as it is, maintenance it regularly, keep it running well...Boulder Hybrids sounds like a good deal if you're a Colorado resident ($2.6k for 4 kWh, $5.6k for 10 kWh) and if I was, I wouldn't even hesitate.

    But the out-of state prices ($10k for 4 kWh, $12.5k for 10 kWh) are less enthusing, and at that point I'm better off putting that money towards a Prime.

    Odds are I will still aim for a 5th Gen Prius, in the strongly held hopes that they make the EPA estimated range longer somehow, even if that's only due to efficiency enhancements.

    I'd hope for different battery size options similar to what the Plug-in conversion above has, but that's unlikely.

    Most everyone on this thread proved helpful - thank you all very much.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ev'ing isn't for the light walleted, yet
     
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  11. Valiant V

    Valiant V Member

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    Must be nice.

    I can't get the deals @fuzzy1 shows. Only discounts/rebates listed in my area are $500 each for military or college grad. Then again, my local dealers either have NO PP's in stock, or just a few. Even the bigger dealers in Dallas only showed 3 or 4 in "extended inventory" - which I take to mean ones they could bring in from partner dealers.

    So - even if I could get a $4-$5K tax credit (if it's even still being offered) by the time I add sales tax back in, I'd be lucky if I could land a lowest trim level Prius Prime for $25K. Of course, getting the "cheap" model means it will be worth less if/when you want to trade it in or sell it outright.

    All that aside, I'm loathe to be the guy taking the hit on depreciation on a new car. That and being a mechanic make me better suited to getting a car that needs a little work for a lower price.

    I have a feeling that between Covid, the related supply chain issues, the chip shortage, and the general shortage of new AND used cars - that deals like the ones mentioned are hard if not impossible to come by. I didn't start out looking to buy a Prius and was REALLY trying to "shop local". I was interested in a Ford Fusion hybrid my local dealer had on his lot. His web site showed about $12K in factory and dealer rebates. I was ready to sign on the line but they reneged on about $7K worth of the discounts, so I said "Sorry, bye" and drove to another town to buy the Prius that week.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    people are still getting good deals, check the pricing thread. how long will it last? as long as toyota needs carb credits.
     
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  13. Valiant V

    Valiant V Member

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    As I mentioned - those great deals aren't available here/now. I looked and asked.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they'll never be available in texas, can't even keep the a/c on
     
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  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Numerous PC members have traveled to where the deals are.
     
  16. Valiant V

    Valiant V Member

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    Our A/C and power stayed on just fine.

    Might be because I could drag out the generator if need be.
     
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  17. Valiant V

    Valiant V Member

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    Seems that buying cars out of state has it's own pitfalls.

    The states caught on years ago and charge people registering cars bought out of state with the difference between local and out-of-state tax rates. Texas also charges a "New resident fee" to folks bringing cars from other states. I suppose one would really have to make sure they weren't inadvertently setting themselves up for a net loss by getting a "deal" somewhere else.

    I suppose if the incentives offered in some areas were strictly due to supply and demand, it might make sense.
     
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  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    New car buyers generally owe full sales / use tax of the place they are registering it, not the place they are buying it. Most states (excluding California) are friendly in not charging sales tax on purchases by out of state residents, knowing that they must pay their own tax to their home state as part of the registration process. People buying from out of state, need to make this clear to the selling dealership.

    New residents bringing in their existing car often pay "use tax". By sheer coincidence :rolleyes:, this normally is the same rate as sales tax.

    There is a way to buy in California without paying sales tax, but it generally means trucking the car across the border, not letting it roll on its own wheels.
     
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  19. Valiant V

    Valiant V Member

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    Yes - "Use tax" is what Illinois charged people who bought vehicles in Wisconsin when registering them in Illinois. Prior to about 1983 or so, they didn't catch this, so it took a lot of people by unwelcome surprise. Illinois also sticks it to drivers for registratiuon (license plates) charging at least double what Texas charges. In addition, pretty much everywhere in the state requires a "City sticker" for another ~$100 per year.
     
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I wonder what took them so long?

    This sort of tax has been owed pretty much since forever in many (most?) sales tax states, but was nearly impossible to enforce on anything except certain big ticket items. My current state had this figured out for motor vehicles being registered, well before I moved here in 1983.

    At least out here, it seems that nearly all the states (except CA) are friendly in not charging double sales tax on cross-state-border car purchases. So feel free to look for deals outside of your own state, but be sure to check and verify the sales tax situation before committing to a purchase.
     
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