1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Rabbi Sues, Christmas Trees Removed from Airport.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Mystery Squid, Dec 11, 2006.

  1. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_....11b0d0cc.html#

    :rolleyes:

    ...and then the Jewish community wonders why so much hate is such easily fostered and aimed towards them. ...and that's an observation, not an anti-semitic statment for those who are quick to pull the anti-semitic card.

    Was the Rabbi truly irritated at such? Of all the religions on this planet who could have a possible "beef" with Christmas, what drove the Rabbi?

    ..anyone have any deeper insights into this strory?
     
  2. geologyrox

    geologyrox New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    513
    0
    0
    As I recall, the Rabbi actually asked the port to put up a menorah and allow/hold a lighting ceremony. They decided it was easier to take down the trees. The rabbi has since said that he's appalled that they removed them.


    Isn't it great how you can omit or include certain details and make completely different points? I've only read a couple of pieces on this, and neither include enough details to know who is being an nice person in this situation. Noone gives a damn, though, probably because they'd already made up their minds on whether they support the Port, the rabbi, or the folks who miss their trees. They only need enough details to support that opinion, and certainly wouldn't want any details that might conflict.

    ::sigh::
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,191
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The rabbi, as I understand it, asked to place a menora (sp?) in the airport and was refused and sued on the grounds of discrimation.

    IMO it was the airport that F'd up here. You say "Sure, we'd welcome that and appreciate your desire to share your faith at this time." Contact some black leaders and ask if they'd like to put up a Kwanza icon, contact the muslim leaders and ask if there's anything they'd like to put up. You make this something to expand cultural understanding, not to place one above the others.

    Now no one has anything...somehow I think that's a much worse outcome.
     
  4. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Dec 11 2006, 11:56 AM) [snapback]360369[/snapback]</div>
    Why would you hold the actions of one or a few people Jews against the entire population of them.

    Maybe I can make it better. I think they should have the right to display whatever Christmas ornaments they want to. So now, does the world like us better - speaking as a Jew that is?

    Why in your humble opinion can hate be fomented to such a large degree as to cover ALL Jews as exemplified in your post, by the verbal expression of an opinion of one or several Jews?

    And not knowing the Rabbi I would say he drove himself in a 5 to 7 year old Toyota product - probably not a Prius though.

    The deeper insight should be provided by you in reponse to my question above. Thanks
     
  5. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I love it... you put up a tree with lights on it and suddenly it's a religious symbol and everyone has to have something representing them sitting next to it. What would the rabbi have said if the trees were permanent, year round fixtures at the airport, and they were then strung with lights and holiday bows when the season arrived?
     
  6. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(geologyrox @ Dec 11 2006, 02:09 PM) [snapback]360379[/snapback]</div>
    :rolleyes:

    Yeah, ok, spinmachine=on... There is no two ways about it, the Rabbi sued, HE took the PRO-active stance, and as a direct consequence, the trees were removed.
     
  7. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    2,437
    27
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Dec 11 2006, 12:56 PM) [snapback]360369[/snapback]</div>
    Again, with most stories it all depends on how you spin it. The original AP press release on this story portrays the rabbi as completely unhappy with this decision, and notes that he brought up his suggestion to the airport weeks ago:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AIR...EMPLATE=DEFAULT

    But the O'reilly's of the world are going to have a field day with this.

    Seattle Airport Removes Christmas Trees
    SEATAC, Wash. (AP) -- All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested.

    Maintenance workers boxed up the trees during the graveyard shift early Saturday, when airport bosses believed few people would notice.

    "We decided to take the trees down because we didn't want to be exclusive," said airport spokeswoman Terri-Ann Betancourt. "We're trying to be thoughtful and respectful, and will review policies after the first of the year."

    Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky, who made his request weeks ago, said he was appalled by the decision. He had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue if the Port of Seattle didn't add the menorah next to the trees, which had been festooned with red ribbons and bows.

    "Everyone should have their spirit of the holiday. For many people the trees are the spirit of the holidays, and adding a menorah adds light to the season," said Bogomilsky, who works in Seattle at the regional headquarters for Chabad Lubavitch, a Jewish education foundation.

    After consulting with lawyers, port staff believed that adding the menorah would have required adding symbols for other religions and cultures in the Northwest. The holidays are the busiest season at the airport, Betancourt said, and staff didn't have time to play cultural anthropologists.

    Hanukkah begins this Friday at sundown.

    "They've darkened the hall instead of turning the lights up," said Bogomilsky's lawyer, Harvey Grad. "There is a concern here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch."
     
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,191
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Dec 11 2006, 11:12 AM) [snapback]360383[/snapback]</div>
    I thought you were all for proactive stances...or is that only for causes you believe in?

    Look, I'm not stupid. The Rabbi was out to make a point, probably completely expected to be denied and had a plan to sue the second it happened. That's a pretty crappy way to go about it, but it, in no way, reflects on the Jewish community as a whole as you're implying.

    But the airport was stupid in the way they handled this. A simple "sure, here's a spot that you can put up your 8' menorah" would have averted the whole issue. It's not as if Judaism is some obscure fringe radical religious organization. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,510
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I would not cite this as a significant cause of anti-semiticism - a long and complex story.

    Having said that, the rabbi was ill-advised to protest a Christmas tree - it's not a Manger Display.

    I see nothing wrong with it as it had no overt religious overtones. There is a mosque next to my workplace - I don't let it bother me. Others need to be a bit more tolerant of spiritual expressions.

    I'd tend to think in general the ones objecting to Christmas displays and the like are of a secular orientation. At any rate, the attempt to complety ban such displays and expresssions brings a backlash of resentment.
     
  10. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    7,201
    1,073
    0
    Location:
    Northampton, MA
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    If anything, the Christians are the ones who should have complained since the "Christmas" tree is really a Pagan symbol. The Christians should be GLAD this Paganism was removed!
     
  11. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    Religion = stupidity. It is a dangerous virus infecting billions around the world. The only cure is intelligence.
     
  12. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Dec 11 2006, 12:12 PM) [snapback]360383[/snapback]</div>
    Since you did not anwer my question above and you responded to another post in form - I must wonder what secondary gain you were trying to illicit by the way you posed this post?

    Why are you trying to spin a story in such a way as to castigate an entire religion?
     
  13. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    2,570
    172
    28
    Location:
    The Beautiful NJ Shore
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Dec 11 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]360399[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you for mentioning this, Stev0! So many people don't realize how many Pagan symbols and traditions were co-opted by Christianity. Even the resurrection of Christ has its roots in Paganism (http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm).

    As for the "Christmas" Tree ...<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Origins of the Christmas Tree @ http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm)</div>
     
  14. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    3,650
    6
    0
    Location:
    Olympia Wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Dec 11 2006, 09:12 AM) [snapback]360383[/snapback]</div>
    The Rabbi did not sue. He wrote a letter and said he had a lawyer. The trees were removed while the board is making a decision and a general policy on the subject of holiday decorations. They did not have one. Everyone take a deep breath and let us talk. I still would like to see a big bond fire in the main lobby but I am not holding out much hope for that. Peace.
     
  15. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Dec 11 2006, 12:46 PM) [snapback]360400[/snapback]</div>
    In one line you just dissed BILLIONS of human beings - one or two of whom are probably more intelligent than you.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas @ Dec 11 2006, 01:04 PM) [snapback]360411[/snapback]</div>
    This is probably a great example of alterior motives laying behind a smoke screen - how this entire incident was probably misrepresented, intentionally or not, by the author of the original post.

    You see hate all the time. All you need do is open your eyes - maybe even by reading a post or two here...........
     
  16. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 11 2006, 02:55 PM) [snapback]360405[/snapback]</div>
    Geez calm down!!! Believe it or not, I do actually have other things to do than immediately respond to sperman's post!!! :rolleyes:
     
  17. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Dec 11 2006, 01:19 PM) [snapback]360423[/snapback]</div>
    The name calling and the sudden lack of time to respond to a post YOU INITIATED is all you have to do anyway.

    Defense Rests.
     
  18. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    1,794
    19
    0
    Location:
    Newton, MA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Dec 11 2006, 01:35 PM) [snapback]360393[/snapback]</div>
    It's funny how many people are getting this one all wrong. If you read the AP report that's included in this thread you'll see that the Rabbi seems like a pretty well-intentioned guy who asked for a menorah and was disappointed when they took down the Christmas trees instead of honoring his request. For those of you who think he was out of line, imagine how the same airport might have reacted to a priest asking for a Christmas tree to be put up if they didn't have one already. I have to imagine that they'd have put up a Christmas tree or two.

    I agree that that's a pretty disappointing response on the airport's part. The response to the story is equally, if not more disappointing. I'm Christian, with several Jewish and some Buddhist friends and I say, the more, the merrier!

    Not only am I "not bothered" by a mosque down the street, or a synagogue, I just can't understand what a person could be bothered by. If you're harboring any ill feelings, you're not being very Christian, and if you're in a foot-race to heaven with your Jewish or Muslim neighbors, you probably have the wrong attitude.
     
  19. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Dec 11 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]360387[/snapback]</div>
    It represents the Jewish community as much as Mel Gibson and his rants represents whomever you guys previously argued... you know, the whole responsibility of speech thang... :lol:. A Rabbi is obviously, a pretty hardcore symbol of the Jews, aside from the star of David.

    In this world, as you know, perception is total reality. All we need to see is a bitter looking Rabbi, something or other about him suing, and Xmas trees disappearing as some sort of resultant, and the next thing you know hate group memberships suddenly spike.

    Of course, I really doubt he was anywhere near some lone radical Rabbi trying to pull this stunt off. As much as I believe it was only the actions of a few radical Rabbi's in NYC blocking movie theathers when "The Passion" opened, so yes, it dows reflect upon them as a whole, 100% analogous as to how many here see "Christians".

    From another perspective, they should be thankful, after all, Christmas and Hannukah are so intertwined, pretty impressive from 2% of the population...!




    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 11 2006, 03:22 PM) [snapback]360426[/snapback]</div>
    BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

    (shaking head violently, spitting out drool everywhere!)

    BTW, are you going to see Mel Gibson's "Apocalypto"?
     
  20. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    2,570
    172
    28
    Location:
    The Beautiful NJ Shore
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 11 2006, 01:22 PM) [snapback]360426[/snapback]</div>
    Interesting point of view from someone who in other threads has decided not to respond to well-reasoned respectful questions because the person "hates" too much. :rolleyes:

    And never mind ignoring request for clarification of your own claims by saying you're too busy and we should look it up ourselves.