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Ratcheting clank from front left at 8-13 mph slow regen and slight turn right

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by atroader, May 17, 2011.

  1. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    Greetings all,
    My 2007 with 58k on it started making the sound of a 'ratchet clankety clank' about at 56k while lightly braking with regen around 8-13 mph (slow and quiet enough to hear it best) and while turning slightly or more to the right. If I'm on a hill and can maintain the conditions, the sound will continue.

    I've spent many a night searching here and elsewhere, learned a lot about strut and cv noises etc. At 57k I took it to a dealer who has a very nice service dept and they rode with me, agreed that they heard it, checked out the cv by hand (my first suspicion) and said all felt fine, that it was recorded at least (my concern being near 60k, std warranty).

    My fear is something in the transaxle- I can replace almost anything else being a car guy but I know the tranny is expensive. Last time I had the wheel off all was ok. Replaced the tranny fluid at 53k and looked very clean, fill amt was good and is not leaking.

    I've attached 2 quicktime movies for opinion, and would appreciate some considerate guesses. 60k miles is coming soon.

    Best regards.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    FWIW, I have not yet checked the LF wheel bearing for play, but that could be a suspect, though bad bearings do not click in my experience.
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    If your car has not been in a front-end accident then I would say that there is a low probability that the transaxle is causing the noise.

    Since you say the noise occurs while gentle braking at low speed, have the brakes been inspected? Perhaps a small rock is lodged in a caliper.

    Apparently the problem is not bad enough for your dealer's tech to narrow down the issue.
     
  4. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    The coolant or the WS? WS should be very black at 53K if it was the first change. Maybe by "clean" you meant no sludge/chunks?
     
  5. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    The WS. Was of course darker than new WS fluid but not very much darker at all- surprised me really. Drain plug had hardly any filings at all.

    After work today I will pull the wheel again and inspect the brake. If it were the brakes, I'd expect some noise at other speeds and once regen turns off, but IT ONLY OCCURS WITH REGEN ON (so above 7 mph).

    Thanks!
     
  6. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    FOLLOW UP: I can make this noise now every time, while slightly turned to the right or the left, while regenerating at slow speeds >7mph (slower makes the clank go slower, stop regen braking and the noise stops (transmission must be loaded)). After spending much time looking at the CV joints and the wheel bearings, I have narrowed down the sound-- it is in the Transaxle :mad:

    I'm 99% sure its the spider gears going bad in the differential. I now have 63k miles, no extended warranty. I have only driven in winter weather once and did not have traction problems, so no abusive spinning etc. even though traction control prevents this. I'm at the dealer now, will follow up. Hoping for the best since I originally brought it to them w/ same sound at 56k, and since I posted here and have videos from 58k.
     
  7. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    Well, dealer techs couldnt replicate (didnt know what to listen for etc) but then I drove and did it every time. Techs think its the brakes (but-- if it were brakes, it would do it going straight too I'd think, not just turning). Agreed to pay for a brake job (would normally do this myself), and if brake job doesnt solve the noise, the cost will be $0.
     
  8. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Wow that's a first. Which dealer is it?
     
  9. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    Update: It wasn't the brakes (free brake job...). Picked car up tonight to drive for now-- was told it will be a couple of days as the dealer techs want to speak with toyota corp techs on the issue. Was also told it shouldn't be a prob covering transaxle under warranty since original issue was brought up and brought into dealer before 60k

    May reveal the dealer when this is finished
     
  10. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    Update:
    Toyota corp techs recommended changing the wheel bearings. The dealer changed the front left (closest to the noise), was able to have it covered under warranty! :). No fix though :(. Took care of the inverter coolant pump recall while it was in. Still pretty sure its the transaxle differential, which isnt getting any quieter!

    From the best vid attached in original post, extracted audio, band-pass filtered with spline curves and amplified. New mp3 attached (is during slow regen while slightly turning right). Noise is obvious.

    Stay tuned for what Toyota corp techs plan next.
     

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  11. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    FINAL UPDATE, hopefully:

    Toyota technical required replacement of the left front CV axle next. This turned out to be the culprit, and was an original suspicion. This is a strange failure because there was no clicking when turning any amount other than just ever so slightly, and only when regenerating. This means that the outer CV was fine but the inner CV joint (at the transaxle, the one that has the slip joint in-out as suspension flexes) was failing. Unless a CV boot fails (mine was fine), this is usually the rarer end of the CV to fail. (Except maybe in some independent front suspension 4x4s with front suspension lifts).

    FYI, hope this helps someone.
     
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  12. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

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    I think this might help me.

    My '07 with 54K makes a similar noise at slow speeds, regen braking, and slight right turns. (thanks for your recording!) I also have an ongoing, unresolved issue of a front end knock/clunk at slow speeds going over rough pavement. This noise is more pronounced during regen braking (readily reproducible by rolling over a speed bump while regen braking). I also have a slight knock in the steering and a certain 'looseness' or play in the steering. (the column and yoke have been replaced by dealer twice, no change)

    I'm wondering if a failing CV could be the common link here.

    edit: I just took the car for a spin around the block. Just like you said, I can repeat the ratcheting noise every time by regen braking from 15 down to stop with a slight turn to the right (lesser so to the left). I hope this is the cause of all my various problems. Where would my Prius be without this forum!
     
  13. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

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    update: I spent two hours at the dealer this morning, went for a test drive with the technician, and they came up with idea that the noise was coming from inside the dash area, then quoted $200 to disassemble the dash to maybe find what the noise was. yeah right! I walked out of there and paid nothing.

    The noise most definitely does not come from the dash. It matches exactly to the recordings posted here and comes from the front end under the exact same circumstances described. I wish my local dealer were not so dismissive to my concerns.
     
  14. saechaka

    saechaka Member

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    Im at 236k now and have the exact problem. Thx for this thread.
     
  15. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

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    Same problem with your car or with your dealer? Or both?!

    236k! .. not too shabby. I'm hoping to get at least 200k, but I need the cooperation of my dealer to make the necessary repairs when I point out concerns.

    I'm still miffed that they diagnosed the noise as an insignificant dashboard rattle. Totally wrong.
     
  16. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Time for a different dealer. Anything suspension-related can be suddenly dangerous.
     
  17. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

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    I have an appt tomorrow morning at a different dealer.

    My Prius has 4 issues that could all be symptomatic of failing CV:
    - ratcheting / clicking while turning at slow speeds
    - 'squeaking' / clunking from front end while rolling over small bumps at slow speeds
    - clunking from accel/decel while in Reverse
    - looseness in the steering

    I hope these are all related to a single problem.
     
  18. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    UPDATE: As mentioned before, as this sound became louder and more repeatable, it became possible to replicate it while slightly turning left as well, same speed and regen conditions. As it turned out tonight, I was going down a steep neighborhood hill to visit family, replicating conditions, but slight turn left instead (turning left I didnt check very much since the last dealer fix). I HEARD THE SOUND AGAIN. While on the hill, I turned slightly right and could not replicate it anymore, as were my results after the fix (sound was always much louder when turning right). My guess is the right front CV inner joint has the same problem. It seems that the direction has to do with the source of the noise (side of bad CV possibly). Honestly here, I'm at 64k miles, and take great care of my vehicles. This almost seems like a mfg problem here- undergreasing or poor quality control on the inner joint. Guess I have a call to make Monday morning...
    I will say this- if Toyota brand CVs are only good for 60k miles, then there's no reason to pay $500 for one vs. a cheap reman option at an autoparts store.
     
  19. klm48116

    klm48116 Owner of Gen I and Gen II

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    My car had the exact same symptons.
    My problem was the front sway bar links are worn out and this isn't a warranty issue...unless you dealer is nice and says they are cracked...like mine did.
    My dealer could of been saying this stuff just to make me happy. But whatever they did, it is fixed and I paid nothing. And I'm happy.
     
  20. atroader

    atroader Engineer

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    Thanks, this is def turning / not turning w same suspension position, but I will check it out