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Featured RAV-4 Hybrid

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, May 4, 2017.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: First Drive: 2017 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid | TheDetroitBureau.com

    The 2017 RAV4 Hybrid combines the power from a 2.5-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder engine and a small high-torque electric motor through its transaxle. The software does some essential work but the RAV4 Hybrid delivers combined 194 system horsepower and Toyota maintains the RAV4 Hybrid can jump from zero to 60 mph in 8.1 seconds.

    Of course, the RAV4 hybrid needs some extra power to carry around the electric motors battery pack, but the extra weight is put to good use in the vehicles driving dynamics. Toyota also has bolstered the RAV4 Hybrid’s suspension and regenerative braking pack for some additional stopping power, which is welcome because over the years, I’ve found Toyota brakes feel somewhat soft but that’s not the case with this vehicle.

    The driving feel is also good. Steering in any SUV is never as crisp as a sedan, coupe or sports car but it’s perfectly adequate in this vehicle and overall ride quality is quite pleasing. In addition, while the fuel economy is solid for an SUV, particularly in city driving where the RAV4 Hybrid will get 30 miles per gallon. It also gets 34 mpg on the highway for a combined rating of 32 mpg.    ​

    This goes a long way to explaining the sales success. SUV can be a style and adding hybrid drive makes it more affordable to operate.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, May 4, 2017
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  2. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    It is interesting that highway mpg is higher, unlike the Prius.
     
    #2 Prodigyplace, May 4, 2017
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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Compare Side-by-Side



    model City Highway combined engine
    1 Highlander Hybrid 29 27 28 3.5L
    2 RAV4 Hybrid AWD 34 30 32 2.5L
    3 Avalon Hybrid 40 39 40 2.5L
    4 Camry Hybrid 42 38 40 2.5L
    5 Prius v 43 39 41 1.8L
    6 Prius c 48 43 46 1.5L
    7 Prius 54 50 52 1.8L
    8 Prius ECO 58 53 56 1.8L


    Bob Wilson
     
    #3 bwilson4web, May 4, 2017
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
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  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Sorry. I was looking at your quote from the article. They got the mpg numbers reversed, apparently.
     
    #4 Prodigyplace, May 4, 2017
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  5. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    It'll be interesting to see what happens with a TNGA RAV4h, too - the new Dynamic Force engine and the P610-derived (P710?) gearbox will help a lot, I suspect, with efficiency.
     
    #5 bhtooefr, May 4, 2017
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    If they put in the one-way clutch, it could be a game changer. That one-way clutch has evaporated the hybrid-mode, speed limit allowing higher speed, engine off operation.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, May 4, 2017
  7. bobzchemist

    bobzchemist Active Member

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    Am I the only one who's wondering if it would be possible to shoehorn a RAV-4 power train into a Prius?
     
    #7 bobzchemist, May 4, 2017
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    #8 Prodigyplace, May 4, 2017
  9. bobzchemist

    bobzchemist Active Member

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    Yes, exactly! But without the roof rack, or the racing stripes.

    I'd like the handling, the lower profile and the lower weight of the Prius, combined with the larger engine and e4WD of the Rav-4.

    Of course, with my limited budget, what's much more likely is that I'll get to buy a 2017 RAV-4 Hybrid in 2025, and have to try to improve the handling myself.
     
    #9 bobzchemist, May 4, 2017
  10. dipper

    dipper Senior Member

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    I rather Toyota drop the Prius Prime setup on the Rav and give it 17 kwh battery pack. And still have awd of course.
     
    #10 dipper, May 4, 2017
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  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Can't wait. It'll be a 40 mpg (minimum) SUV. Hopefully that means the HiHy can come up to 35 mpg combined.

    Well you don't have to wait long. The 2018 Camry could deliver eye-popping mpg numbers. Nothing is confirmed but I think Toyota did mention "20% improvement" and "class-leading numbers". Well the Gen 2.5 HAH (with 2017 numbers) gets.. 49? 50mpg combined? You can almost guarantee Toyota is targeting that.


    2018 Toyota Camry Hybrid: two different battery packs, 'best-in-class' fuel economy claimed
     
    #11 Tideland Prius, May 4, 2017
  12. dipper

    dipper Senior Member

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    Didn't the HiHy just get updated with engine updates? Just that they are still using old battery tech.
     
    #12 dipper, May 4, 2017
  13. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Yes, they did update the engine from the 2GR-FXE to the 2GR-FXS - it gained VVT-iW on the intake cam, and a direct injection system (and a bump in compression to go with it). And, given that Toyota's using the "ESTEC" name on it, I'm also guessing that the heads got some of the same updates that the 2ZR-FXE did.

    However, it's not just the battery being old tech - I'd like to note that base Gen 4 Liftbacks have NiMH batteries still, and get basically as good results as the Li-ion ones do. The bigger problem is the transmission and power electronics being literally the P310 from 2005. Toyota's learned a lot about making those things efficient since then, and that's also why the Camry Hybrid and RAV4 Hybrid are leaving so much efficiency on the table - they're using P310-family gearboxes as well.

    So, my guess is that the HiHy might've gotten 5% from its engine. (However, it actually gained city, and lost highway mileage with the DI engine...) There's another 10-15% on the table from the transmission and power electronics, I'd guess. And then any lightweighting that TNGA brings, any aerodynamic techniques that are available... there could be even more gains. (Note that the 20% improvement that Toyota claimed (in the JC08 cycle, interestingly, when they used EPA cycle for the non-hybrid) for the new 2.5 liter hybrid was powertrain contribution only, and that there could be more from the car itself.)
     
    #13 bhtooefr, May 4, 2017
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    What he said ^ haha. Good explanation.

    Yes the improvements on the Gen 4 (motors, inverter, electronics, PSD) will bode well for the next gen hybrids (if they're able to scale up those improvements to the next generation of higher output/heavier duty units made for the HiHy/R4h/Camry vs. the lighter duty for the Prius.

    That plus the reduction in weight from TNGA which allows Toyota to offset the added equipment (like TSS-P)
     
    #14 Tideland Prius, May 5, 2017
  15. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    That's one thing Toyota hasn't been aggressive about. The HiHy is nice but but latest version has a cramped back seat and it went off my shortlist (we were looking for a 7+ passenger vehicle).

    Ended up getting the PacHy and wow...for a company that's never been in the Plugin Market before (and failed itself in the Hybrid Market) did they get this right. The novelty of driving the PacHy reminded me of when I drove the Prius for the first time!

    Ok, it's not an SUV but gets better mileage than the Rav 4, and runs in EV for over 30 miles. Here's the EPA calculation for the vehicle:

    [​IMG]

    So it matches the Rav 4 in terms of Hybrid Efficiency, but it's much larger...however it lacks 4WD.
     
    #15 inferno, May 8, 2017
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