Rav4 Prime fails Moose Test

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by Trollbait, Dec 5, 2020.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There are plenty of stories out there. I grabbed this first; 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime Fails Moose Avoidance Test

    The non-plug Rav4 had failed earlier, but Toyota fixed it, and it passed. Toyota EU confirmed the results, and is saying a fix will be out by next quarter.

     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, I saw the video today. So how do the other cars perform this test? Are all SUVs/Crossovers performs poorly on this test? I have never encountered a moose myself, but have had a near miss black bear.
     
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  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Before the prevalence of ABS, one Mercedes rolled during the test.
    Well, while the Volvo and Mitsubishi in video also failed, it happened at higher speeds, and failure was in going to wide and hitting the cones. The backend of the car didn't swing out like the Rav4. That was a professional driver too; an average one might have rolled the car.

    From article comments, some SUVs have passed the test. The BMW X5 is one I can recall. But tall Suvs will generally do worse than a low sedan.

    Moose test is just a nick name. It applies to avoiding anything unexpected in the road; a downed bike, kid running out into the street, a falling rock, etc.
     
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  5. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    I read somewhere that Toyota has said they will fix and retest. Can't believe they don't before production as part of their prototyping.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Mentioned in the link about getting a fix out. The standard Rav4 had also initially failed, but passed after a fix.

    Consumer Reports has emergency avoidance and corner tests they do on their track. I recall a Lexus SUV failing that bad enough that Toyota put a stop sale order in place until they got a fix out. It was worse than this; no roll over, but the SUV would have ended off the road even with a generous shoulder.

    So it looks like Toyota's internal testing may not put the car through very aggressive maneuvering. In this specific case, they may have only done testing required by regulation, and assumed the Prime/PHV was fine with the Rav4 getting a fix last year.
     
  7. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    We had a similar test conducted by a Motoring Magazine back when the TOYOTA Kluger (HIGHLANDER I think you call it) was released (2008 ish)- it ended up lying on it's side.

    upload_2020-12-6_13-41-27.png upload_2020-12-6_13-41-56.png
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Maybe Toyota shouldn't have stopped making sports cars.
     
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  9. DGH

    DGH Thread Terminator

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  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    There are uncomfortable facts about animal-related accidents. IIHS states, based on NHTSA data, “Many of these collisions involve secondary impacts that are more severe, such as colliding with another vehicle or a tree.” Standing on the brakes and hitting the animal, even if it is a moose, may be the better strategy. However, it won’t matter. You are not prepared. I am not prepared. And I spend time on racetracks almost every year.


    I don't know about that statement. Isn't the rule of thumb "Hit a deer but avoid a moose" because a deer is smaller (of course avoid if you can) but a moose will kill you.
     
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  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I had the understanding that deer are commonly short enough to usually stay on the grill, especially still the SUV era arrived and pushed vehicle noses higher. But moose are tall enough to slide over the hood and hit the windshield. And with more mass to enable them to go through the windshield.
     
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The article makes the mistake that the test is just about avoiding animals. Moose test is just a nickname for the less catchy evasive manoeuvre test. It is about avoiding anything that comes into the path. Including things that you absolutely want to avoid, because most people don't want to kill others. Moose test - Wikipedia

    Regarding the part about auto braking systems, there is a post here from someone that hit a boar that the Prime's system did not see and thus brake for.

    PS: When I went looking for a link for this thread, at least half that came up were about the fix.
    White tail deer are small(100 to 150 pounds). Standing on the road, they'll likely go under the car when hit. A bull moose can be ten times the weight of a stag deer; Moose are at least over 4 times the weight of a deer. It's the difference between a very large dog and a cow. Moose are also leggy. A car will take out the legs, and the body will go through the windshield.
     
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  13. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    From the article "The moose test does not actually put a large animal on the course for the car to see. It is just cones. So, it is invalid. If there is actually a moose, elk, reindeer, or similar animal standing in your lane, the car will be braking before you react. That changes a lot. If your plan was to steer before shifting the full weight of the vehicle to the left front contact patch (driver’s front wheel), that is now out the window. The car’s weight is already shifting to the two front wheels before you will take any action. All modern cars have these systems. In Consumer Reports surveys, 54% of respondents say that such systems have intervened to help them."

    This relates to a question I asked shortly after I bought my Gen 4:

    Does Pedestrian Detection Detect Deer in Front of the Car? | PriusChat

    The answer at the time was: "TSS-P is not designed to detect animals.", apparently because the system recognizes shapes rather than masses of flesh.

    So, is the author of the article incorrect in his statement that "the car will be braking" or have these systems now been improved to the point that they will recognize animals?
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Maybe some systems can, but then they can still miss things they are designed for, or have false positives and brake for objects on the side of the road. There isn't s single system out there. How they work will vary. read up on the system in your car to know its limitations.

    In the case of the author, I doubt he has. The comment I made there about the moose test not being about animals in the road hasn't shown up yet.
     
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  15. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Yes - we don't have Mooses here - so the test I reported above for the Highlander (#7) would have used cones too. In that case, it was a shootout of all new cars that year for "CAR OF THE YEAR" - which it lost!!! (From what I can see, the Honda Accord EURO won that year.)
     
  16. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    When did Toyota fix the non-Prime RAV4 for the Moose test?

    Some of us with new non-Prime RAV4's (hybrids) have a few annoying issues.
    There is a fuel tank not-filling-up issue, with a very recent fix of a new gas tank/sender unit if you qualify.
    And the 2020's have 12V battery discharge (after sitting a few days) for no known reason problem...there is a fix but unclear if it is total fix. During the COVID lock-down highlighted a number of (2020) RAV4's had that issue.

    I do feel like maybe Toyota USA is slipping a bit.

    I guess Moose are the only varmint we do not have in Virginia, as yet.
     
    #16 wjtracy, Dec 10, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    This. I've witness the results of a horse into a small pickup (remember when they were actually small?) and it happened exactly like that killing the driver and the horse. A deer, even our prized south Texas white tail bucks, just don't have the mass to do major damage but even a minor strike will ruin your day.
     
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    OK... this moose myth was busted, so an evasive maneuver maybe necessary.

    If you are going to hit a moose with a vehicle, it is safer to hit it at a higher speed than to try to slow down.
    busted

    The Build Team ran identical cars into a fake rubber moose at two different speeds. The damage from the high speed impact was located higher up on the vehicle and was more severe. It was speculated that hitting a moose at a high speed would only work with a very low car such as an F1 race car. Such a car would be able to take out the legs and clear the area before the moose fell on top of it.

     
  19. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    A friend was cruising along at 60 and swerved to avoid a deer. Hit the deer and rolled down an embankment an estimated 3 times. Husband and two kids, the 12 year old in the back seat slipping the younger daughter out of the harness and dragging her out the back of the crushed minivan. Husband serious arm and hand injuries.

    Now tell me a crash involving a deer isn't dangerous. Mini-Van by the way. I've seen sports cars and sedans wher deer pieces penetrated the cockpit.

    And in AU they have Roos.

    Swerve-ability matters.
     
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    In that case, it was likely the swerve that caused the most damage. I've seen reports here of swerves that successfully avoided and saved the deer, but the accompanying rollover was fatal to some occupants.

    Many modern vehicles here are high enough that many deer strikes take out just the grill area, not the windshield. But lower vehicles, which included most sedans prior to the SUV/Pickup Era, are more likely to have deer make it to the windshield.
     
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